From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1EefVv-0002HU-FT for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:17:19 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id jAMLGYtY031941; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:16:34 GMT Received: from smtp05.gnvlscdb.sys.nuvox.net (smtp.nuvox.net [64.89.70.9]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id jAMLEgi8008493 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 21:14:42 GMT Received: from cgianelloni.nuvox.net (216.215.202.4.nw.nuvox.net [216.215.202.4]) by smtp05.gnvlscdb.sys.nuvox.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id jAMLFA6K009926 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:15:10 -0500 Received: by cgianelloni.nuvox.net (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:13:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation From: Chris Gianelloni To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <438382BD.70904@egr.msu.edu> References: <20051122144745.GR12982@mail.lieber.org> <438330E1.2000804@gentoo.org> <1132672527.27288.21.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <20051122180349.GC16984@bmb24.uth.tmc.edu> <1132686363.27288.79.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <20051122192808.GE16984@bmb24.uth.tmc.edu> <1132689436.27288.91.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <977302213.20051122211620@gentoo.org> <438382BD.70904@egr.msu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-tBvcRWO4RbheQ8bI6MBX" Organization: Gentoo Linux Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:13:35 -0500 Message-Id: <1132694015.27288.112.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.1 X-Archives-Salt: ab9a4b6e-980d-49ab-bbb5-02875f624d22 X-Archives-Hash: 562677e4462d80656bb5e244549fc631 --=-tBvcRWO4RbheQ8bI6MBX Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 15:42 -0500, Alec Joseph Warner wrote: > I'd point out that this was not well executed as a major change should=20 > have been. We talked of major package changes, apache config changes,=20 > of package breakage. Then one day you up and remove what some consider=20 > a vital part of installing with no warning. Announcements earlier=20 > noting the pending removal of tarballs to say, g-announce and this list=20 *sigh* Please read the thread you're responding to before making accusations. Nobody has removed any tarballs. > would probably have stifled much of the complains ( see the news hit=20 > gentoo-wiki, gentoo-portage, and the community ). Otherwise yeah, you=20 > will get a knee-jerk reaction, many users think you just screwed them=20 > out of something. Nevermind the fact that they are wrong and uninformed=20 > ( in most cases ) you did a crappy job of conveying the message of what=20 > when and why. No, we changed some text in the Handbook to basically say "If you want stages 1 or 2, go here" with a link to the new location. > Personally if releng is already making stages 1 and 2 for the liveCD's I=20 > see no reason not to give that work away to the community. Stick it in=20 > some unsupported/ section on the mirrors and tell people so. Why throw=20 > away the work you did making the liveCD? Can you quantify the number of=20 > bugs here? We don't put out the livecd-stage1 portions of our CD building process, either. Why not? It isn't necessary and it really has no point. As for quantifying the number of bugs, I could do so by searching bugzilla, but so could you. What I cannot quantify, because I haven't even tried to keep track, is the number of times a user has hit a circular dependency in #gentoo or on the forums, or by coming and asking in #gentoo-releng. I cannot quantify the number of times a person has asked what is so broken with our releases when they cannot bootstrap due to some issue where a new USE flag has snuck into the dependency tree for "system" and is now wanting kernel sources, or has pulled in a MTA or cron daemon that wasn't the one they wanted. --=20 Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux --=-tBvcRWO4RbheQ8bI6MBX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBDg4n/kT4lNIS36YERAlG+AJ9nLvi6M3zH91qn/yDU/Jbf/EeaawCfUZ1S Bw2jivXh57SwN4Lzepdt0Cs= =hmTk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-tBvcRWO4RbheQ8bI6MBX-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list