From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E7fsA-0004BG-Bh for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 20:59:54 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j7NKwJo9031602; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 20:58:19 GMT Received: from mail.max-t.com (h216-18-124-229.gtcust.grouptelecom.net [216.18.124.229]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j7NKucKm030162 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 20:56:39 GMT Received: from cocagne.max-t.internal ([192.168.1.124]) by mail.max-t.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1E7fpq-00026B-Ee for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:57:33 -0400 From: Olivier Crete To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <20050823212717.33e5571e@snowdrop.home> References: <20050821220505.4efbaff2@snowdrop.home> <2ZLH1.21133GH7@gentoo.org> <20050823212717.33e5571e@snowdrop.home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Organization: Gentoo Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:57:28 -0400 Message-Id: <1124830648.12024.95.camel@cocagne.max-t.internal> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.2 (2.2.2-5) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 192.168.1.124 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: tester@gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Fixing the TERM mess X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.1+cvs (built Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:35:17 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on mail.max-t.com); Unknown failure X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by robin.gentoo.org id j7NKucKm030162 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by robin.gentoo.org id j7NKwJpf031602 X-Archives-Salt: 6691a586-a7ac-4f0e-ae81-e669d87a2c4f X-Archives-Hash: 4b81b86fecc1710496af1713471a8a72 On Tue, 2005-23-08 at 21:27 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 8:52:13 +0200 "Kevin F. Quinn" > wrote: > | On 21/8/2005 23:05:05, Ciaran McCreesh (ciaranm@gentoo.org) wrote: > | > Now the proposal. This isn't something that can happen immediately, > | > but it's something I'd like to see us working towards: > | >=20 > | > [...] > | >=20 > | > * De-cripple the standard xterm definition and remove restrictions > | > from programs which can make full use of xterm's capabilities. > |=20 > | This bit, obviously, has to wait until at least the more common > | packages have been adjusted for their own TERM value. In the > | interim, how about creating a 'xtermstd' entry with the de-crippled > | definition, and altering the (presumably few) packages that supply > | fully-compatible xterms to use that, with a view to changing them > | back to 'xterm' later once the rest of the world is in line. > |=20 > | I think it's also worth considering leaving the existing xterm entry > | crippled, and just accept that abuse of it is too entrenched and > | widespread to fix. =20 >=20 > Hrm, I'd really rather not do that, on the grounds that it's a nasty > hack and that it encourages people to carry on abusing TERM. By leaving > xterm crippled in the long term, we're in effect saying "it's ok to > pretend to be an xterm", which it isn't. I though about this thing last night, and frankly, I think its a lost cause. I remember that during the Gnome 1.x era, gnome-terminal used to set TERM=3Dgnome (at least it did on Red Hat) and they had the proper termcap/terminfo entries. But they ended up going back to TERM=3Dxterm, probably because it caused problems for their users, like login into anything else and being reduced to the lowest possible common denominator (like logging into a Solaris system and being reduced to non-visual mode by vi). And by the way, Solaris 2.8 still does not know about rxvt. As a gnome-terminal user, I've never had problems with anything that tried to use advanced xterm crap... probably because no uses them. If you want X stuff, just use a real X application (like gvim...). I'm strictly opposed to crippling my terminal use in the most common cases (such a logging into a non-Gentoo system) for one or two legacy applications. In the era of massive sshing, we have to forget terminfo and new terminal types. We should understand xterm to mean a basic x terminal and not the application from X.org.=20 --=20 Olivier Cr=C3=AAte tester@gentoo.org Gentoo Developer x86 Security Liaison --=20 gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list