From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from [140.105.134.102] (helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DnACM-0003Cm-I9 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:07:59 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j5S76M9T001403; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:06:22 GMT Received: from localhost (24-183-201-14.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com [24.183.201.14] (may be forged)) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5S74WEJ009536 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:04:33 GMT Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] ident=urilith) by localhost with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DnA9S-0006Fj-MT for gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:04:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 38: Status of forum moderators in the Gentoo project From: Michael Tindal To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: References: <20050627170941.GA1225@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at> <42C057B6.3070306@flaska.net> <20050627203103.GA13962@gentoo.org> <20050627205007.GA13005@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at> <1119907158.13606.144.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <20050627215504.GC13005@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at> <1119911067.13606.158.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:03:56 -0500 Message-Id: <1119942236.22348.3.camel@localhost> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.3.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "dreamshadow.elfblade.com", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 08:44 +0200, Ioannis Aslanidis wrote: > On 6/28/05, Chris Gianelloni wrote: > > > I think the current suggestion in the GLEP is the best we can > > > achieve. Old moderators may take the quiz, new moderators must. Given > > > enough time all old moderators may retire sooner or later and one day > > > all active moderators will be official. > > > > I just don't see it the same way as you. I agree with having all new > > *global* moderators taking the quiz. However, I completely disagree > > with you that we should have *some* global moderators that have become > > official Gentoo representatives, while others have not. It simply > > causes too much confusion and makes things a serious pain to manage. > > Either the forums become a much more controlled (as in global mods have > > to be staff) environment, or they stay the same. I just don't see how > > any middle ground would be feasible without an enormous amount of > > managerial overhead that seems like a complete waste of time to me. > > > > What I do not understand here is where is the confussion. We accept > the fact that if any mod/admin wants to become staff, he's got to take > the quiz. In our first version of the GLEP, there was a backwards > compatibility section that explained that existing mods/admins > wouldn't have to take the quiz. That was our internal global consensus > and obviously the rest of existing developers do not agree with it. > It's just that you do not let us take care of our own things. [...] Content analysis details: (-2.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.8 ALL_TRUSTED Did not pass through any untrusted hosts X-Archives-Salt: 1e084335-c83f-4da1-8142-5551e97be2e3 X-Archives-Hash: 9bb379e3987ed17cd464c8710fd65209 On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 08:44 +0200, Ioannis Aslanidis wrote: > On 6/28/05, Chris Gianelloni wrote: > > > I think the current suggestion in the GLEP is the best we can > > > achieve. Old moderators may take the quiz, new moderators must. Given > > > enough time all old moderators may retire sooner or later and one day > > > all active moderators will be official. > > > > I just don't see it the same way as you. I agree with having all new > > *global* moderators taking the quiz. However, I completely disagree > > with you that we should have *some* global moderators that have become > > official Gentoo representatives, while others have not. It simply > > causes too much confusion and makes things a serious pain to manage. > > Either the forums become a much more controlled (as in global mods have > > to be staff) environment, or they stay the same. I just don't see how > > any middle ground would be feasible without an enormous amount of > > managerial overhead that seems like a complete waste of time to me. > > > > What I do not understand here is where is the confussion. We accept > the fact that if any mod/admin wants to become staff, he's got to take > the quiz. In our first version of the GLEP, there was a backwards > compatibility section that explained that existing mods/admins > wouldn't have to take the quiz. That was our internal global consensus > and obviously the rest of existing developers do not agree with it. > It's just that you do not let us take care of our own things. You want to become official. In that regard, you do not get to take care of your own things anymore. If that was the case, there would be no control over the direction developers take, and there would be no use for any kind of managers, or developer relations, or anything like that. > Even thought that, we did agree about the quiz thing. Unfortunately, > some people of our team, with who we agreed on an initial instance are > not frustrated by this. So the best solution I see so everyone gets > his share and have an intermediate position, nor our initial consensus > nor the strict proposal of developers. That is to say, let every > single mod decide if he/she wants to become Gentoo Staff or not. If we say half of the global moderators are staff, and the other half are not, how are users supposed to know the difference? Once you become official, the statements made by the forum moderators/administrators are pretty much official statements of Gentoo (to the user anyway). In that regard, its not proper to have a half-way period. Every developer and staff has taken the quiz, I fail to see what makes forum mods so special they deserve an exception; > As I said above, I do not understand why it is so confusing. > Mods/admins that do not become staff, would retire sooner or later as > stated by Haas Wernfried, so in the end all mods/admins will be > official Gentoo Staff. We could have a transitory time in here for > them. Again, I fail to see why the forum staff deserves an exception to the rules that every other person that is either staff for Gentoo or a developer for Gentoo has to follow. > About the language: all global mods do speak (write) English fluently. > That is too obvious. Global Mods and Admins can take the quiz in > English with no problem. The problem comes with our fellow > International Forum Mods, who do not have to meet that requirement as > they won't be doing their job in English. This means that their > English level can be low enough, just to keep up the communication > with the rest of the team. We also have to think that many people in > the Gentoo Forums do not have a good English level and precisely > *that* is the reason International Forums exist. If everyone had a > good English level, International Forums and International Forum > Moderators wouldn't be required, but that's not the case. I don't believe anyone here has stated the forum-specific moderators would have to take the quiz, since forum-specific moderators won't be considered staff. If however, they wanted to become global moderators, then they would be required to take the quiz. Mike Tindal -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list