Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 38: Status of forum moderators in the Gentoo project

[Michael Tindal <urilith@gentoo.org>]

On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 08:44 +0200, Ioannis Aslanidis wrote:
> On 6/28/05, Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > I think the current suggestion in the GLEP is the best we can
> > > achieve. Old moderators may take the quiz, new moderators must. Given
> > > enough time all old moderators may retire sooner or later and one day
> > > all active moderators will be official.
> > 
> > I just don't see it the same way as you.  I agree with having all new
> > *global* moderators taking the quiz.  However, I completely disagree
> > with you that we should have *some* global moderators that have become
> > official Gentoo representatives, while others have not.  It simply
> > causes too much confusion and makes things a serious pain to manage.
> > Either the forums become a much more controlled (as in global mods have
> > to be staff) environment, or they stay the same.  I just don't see how
> > any middle ground would be feasible without an enormous amount of
> > managerial overhead that seems like a complete waste of time to me.
> > 
> 
> What I do not understand here is where is the confussion. We accept
> the fact that if any mod/admin wants to become staff, he's got to take
> the quiz. In our first version of the GLEP, there was a backwards
> compatibility section that explained that existing mods/admins
> wouldn't have to take the quiz. That was our internal global consensus
> and obviously the rest of existing developers do not agree with it.
> It's just that you do not let us take care of our own things.

You want to become official.  In that regard, you do not get to take
care of your own things anymore.  If that was the case, there would be
no control over the direction developers take, and there would be no use
for any kind of managers, or developer relations, or anything like that.

> Even thought that, we did agree about the quiz thing. Unfortunately,
> some people of our team, with who we agreed on an initial instance are
> not frustrated by this. So the best solution I see so everyone gets
> his share and have an intermediate position, nor our initial consensus
> nor the strict proposal of developers. That is to say, let every
> single mod decide if he/she wants to become Gentoo Staff or not.

If we say half of the global moderators are staff, and the other half
are not, how are users supposed to know the difference?  Once you become
official, the statements made by the forum moderators/administrators are
pretty much official statements of Gentoo (to the user anyway).  In that
regard, its not proper to have a half-way period.  Every developer and
staff has taken the quiz, I fail to see what makes forum mods so special
they deserve an exception;

> As I said above, I do not understand why it is so confusing.
> Mods/admins that do not become staff, would retire sooner or later as
> stated by Haas Wernfried, so in the end all mods/admins will be
> official Gentoo Staff. We could have a transitory time in here for
> them.

Again, I fail to see why the forum staff deserves an exception to the
rules that every other person that is either staff for Gentoo or a
developer for Gentoo has to follow.

> About the language: all global mods do speak (write) English fluently.
> That is too obvious. Global Mods and Admins can take the quiz in
> English with no problem. The problem comes with our fellow
> International Forum Mods, who do not have to meet that requirement as
> they won't be doing their job in English. This means that their
> English level can be low enough, just to keep up the communication
> with the rest of the team. We also have to think that many people in
> the Gentoo Forums do not have a good English level and precisely
> *that* is the reason International Forums exist. If everyone had a
> good English level, International Forums and International Forum
> Moderators wouldn't be required, but that's not the case.

I don't believe anyone here has stated the forum-specific moderators
would have to take the quiz, since forum-specific moderators won't be
considered staff.  If however, they wanted to become global moderators,
then they would be required to take the quiz.

Mike Tindal

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