* [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
@ 2005-04-27 21:35 info
2005-04-27 21:54 ` Greg KH
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: info @ 2005-04-27 21:35 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
All;
First let me apologize if this is the wrong thread to post this request. If
I'm out of line let me know (preferrably without flaming me)
I've been in talks with a group of folks interested in starting a new
Linux/Debian based company. This new company to be successful will need the
ability to pull off the following:
1) Creation of a new distro based on key specific features of various distros
available today
2) Creation of new Linux games or vastly improvement on the Linux games
available today
Here's my questions:
1) How / where do I find and recruit top notch Linux kernel, application and
game developers?
2) How would we best go about soliciting open source developers to help us out
and what's the best way to manage these type of development processes ?
Any tips, thoughts, past experiences, warnings, etc would be very helpful.
Thanks in advance for any advice you may have for me.
Also if anyone reading this is interested in learning more please pop me an
email at info@ciberforce.net
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 21:35 [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources info
@ 2005-04-27 21:54 ` Greg KH
2005-04-27 22:20 ` Ryan
2005-04-27 22:09 ` Ryan
2005-04-28 2:24 ` Chris Gianelloni
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2005-04-27 21:54 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 03:35:25PM -0600, info@ciberforce.net wrote:
> Here's my questions:
>
> 1) How / where do I find and recruit top notch Linux kernel, application and
> game developers?
>
> 2) How would we best go about soliciting open source developers to help us out
> and what's the best way to manage these type of development processes ?
Heh, if you don't know how to do these two things, I think you need to
rethink your company ideas :)
And yes, it's off-topic for this list.
greg k-h
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 21:35 [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources info
2005-04-27 21:54 ` Greg KH
@ 2005-04-27 22:09 ` Ryan
2005-04-27 22:17 ` info
2005-04-28 2:24 ` Chris Gianelloni
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ryan @ 2005-04-27 22:09 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
The old fashion way. Press releases but in the electronic form. One
site that comes to mind, slashdot.org. There is no better way to
recruit than to advertise on the sites that these people look at.
Another would definatly be distrowatch.org. This is where all things
concerning distros can be found and would be a good place to start. You
could also try to solicite some of the current coders of already
existing Linux based games such as those listed at happypenguin.com you
could also have a press release there as well. Look at some of the more
popular projects on freshmeat or sourceforge and see who their coders
are. You can look at their profiles to see what they do and sometimes
who they currently work for. You might find some real diamonds in the
rough in the projects that are not very popular but they often contain
some very un-employed coders that have outstanding abilities. The last
company I worked with got some of its very best coders by looking around
on sourceforge.net.
Some things to include would be whether this is a paid position or a
volunteer thing. The other part that will be the MOST important to the
hardcore Open Source coders would be the license that you would be
releasing things as. If you are going to do it under an open source
license, which one will it be IE: bsd, lgpl, gpl, etc. If it wont be a
gpl'd license, give a link to your license so that they can read it.
Most people will not want to do work for a company that uses a closed
source license but there are some people out there that wont mind this
as long as they agree with the companies vision, whatever it is.
The other thing that you should expect is that dont expect people to
come flocking to your distro just because you have good ideas. The idea
WILL take time for it to sink in to the community and to be accepted.
Starting a new distro is NOT something for the faint of heart, it also
takes A LOT of start up cash. Most linux companies are in business for
up to 3 years before they even break even let alone turn a profit.
The other place to advertise would be mailing lists such as this one,
but DO NOT flood it or you will definatly be seen as a black sheep.
Also do not do it on lists that explicitly say NO ADVERTISING.
info@ciberforce.net wrote:
>All;
>
>First let me apologize if this is the wrong thread to post this request. If
>I'm out of line let me know (preferrably without flaming me)
>
>I've been in talks with a group of folks interested in starting a new
>Linux/Debian based company. This new company to be successful will need the
>ability to pull off the following:
>
>1) Creation of a new distro based on key specific features of various distros
>available today
>
>2) Creation of new Linux games or vastly improvement on the Linux games
>available today
>
>Here's my questions:
>
>1) How / where do I find and recruit top notch Linux kernel, application and
>game developers?
>
>2) How would we best go about soliciting open source developers to help us out
>and what's the best way to manage these type of development processes ?
>
>Any tips, thoughts, past experiences, warnings, etc would be very helpful.
>
>Thanks in advance for any advice you may have for me.
>
>Also if anyone reading this is interested in learning more please pop me an
>email at info@ciberforce.net
>
>
>
>
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 22:09 ` Ryan
@ 2005-04-27 22:17 ` info
2005-04-27 22:35 ` Aron Griffis
0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: info @ 2005-04-27 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
Great Ideas! Thanks for the info. I had not thought of the slashdot route. I
realize this will be a long slow process and we feel confident that we can
raise enough capital to pull it off. Mostly we'll be looking for paid staff
with some volunteer augmentation. I suspect we'll want to go with the
standard GPL. I;ll definitely look at the dev's on the happy penguin &
sourceforge projects as well.
Thanks again for the advice.
btw, if you are a kernel hacker or an openGL game dev maybe you would be
interested in talking with us?
> The old fashion way. Press releases but in the electronic form. One
> site that comes to mind, slashdot.org. There is no better way to
> recruit than to advertise on the sites that these people look at.
> Another would definatly be distrowatch.org. This is where all things
> concerning distros can be found and would be a good place to start. You
> could also try to solicite some of the current coders of already
> existing Linux based games such as those listed at happypenguin.com you
> could also have a press release there as well. Look at some of the more
> popular projects on freshmeat or sourceforge and see who their coders
> are. You can look at their profiles to see what they do and sometimes
> who they currently work for. You might find some real diamonds in the
> rough in the projects that are not very popular but they often contain
> some very un-employed coders that have outstanding abilities. The last
> company I worked with got some of its very best coders by looking around
> on sourceforge.net.
>
> Some things to include would be whether this is a paid position or a
> volunteer thing. The other part that will be the MOST important to the
> hardcore Open Source coders would be the license that you would be
> releasing things as. If you are going to do it under an open source
> license, which one will it be IE: bsd, lgpl, gpl, etc. If it wont be a
> gpl'd license, give a link to your license so that they can read it.
> Most people will not want to do work for a company that uses a closed
> source license but there are some people out there that wont mind this
> as long as they agree with the companies vision, whatever it is.
>
> The other thing that you should expect is that dont expect people to
> come flocking to your distro just because you have good ideas. The idea
> WILL take time for it to sink in to the community and to be accepted.
> Starting a new distro is NOT something for the faint of heart, it also
> takes A LOT of start up cash. Most linux companies are in business for
> up to 3 years before they even break even let alone turn a profit.
>
> The other place to advertise would be mailing lists such as this one,
> but DO NOT flood it or you will definatly be seen as a black sheep.
> Also do not do it on lists that explicitly say NO ADVERTISING.
>
> info@ciberforce.net wrote:
> >All;
> >
> >First let me apologize if this is the wrong thread to post this request.
> > If I'm out of line let me know (preferrably without flaming me)
> >
> >I've been in talks with a group of folks interested in starting a new
> >Linux/Debian based company. This new company to be successful will need
> > the ability to pull off the following:
> >
> >1) Creation of a new distro based on key specific features of various
> > distros available today
> >
> >2) Creation of new Linux games or vastly improvement on the Linux games
> >available today
> >
> >Here's my questions:
> >
> >1) How / where do I find and recruit top notch Linux kernel, application
> > and game developers?
> >
> >2) How would we best go about soliciting open source developers to help us
> > out and what's the best way to manage these type of development processes
> > ?
> >
> >Any tips, thoughts, past experiences, warnings, etc would be very helpful.
> >
> >Thanks in advance for any advice you may have for me.
> >
> >Also if anyone reading this is interested in learning more please pop me
> > an email at info@ciberforce.net
--
=======================================
Your Mouse Has Moved.
Windows must restart to affect the change(s).
Reboot Now [Y]
=======================================
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 21:54 ` Greg KH
@ 2005-04-27 22:20 ` Ryan
2005-04-27 22:28 ` Ciaran McCreesh
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ryan @ 2005-04-27 22:20 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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Oh yea, and expect to get LOTS of wise cracks such as this below. Just
ignore those.
Greg KH wrote:
>On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 03:35:25PM -0600, info@ciberforce.net wrote:
>
>
>>Here's my questions:
>>
>>1) How / where do I find and recruit top notch Linux kernel, application and
>>game developers?
>>
>>2) How would we best go about soliciting open source developers to help us out
>>and what's the best way to manage these type of development processes ?
>>
>>
>
>Heh, if you don't know how to do these two things, I think you need to
>rethink your company ideas :)
>
>And yes, it's off-topic for this list.
>
>greg k-h
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 22:20 ` Ryan
2005-04-27 22:28 ` Ciaran McCreesh
@ 2005-04-27 22:28 ` Greg KH
2005-04-27 22:33 ` Brian Harring
2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2005-04-27 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 04:20:57PM -0600, Ryan wrote:
> Oh yea, and expect to get LOTS of wise cracks such as this below. Just
> ignore those.
I was not just trying to make a joke, I was serious. If you do not
understand how to attract open source developers, or even where they are
located at, then you will fail misserably at trying to recruit them, or
rely on them as your employees and/or market.
In short, know the business you are trying to enter into...
And yes, it's _very_ hard to make a distro, I've worked on 3 different
ones now (maintaining pretty much a whole distro with just 3 people at a
past job), and the effort and time involved is vastly unknown by anyone
who has not done it before.
greg k-h
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 22:20 ` Ryan
@ 2005-04-27 22:28 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2005-04-28 7:23 ` Stuart Longland
2005-04-27 22:28 ` Greg KH
2005-04-27 22:33 ` Brian Harring
2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ciaran McCreesh @ 2005-04-27 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:20:57 -0600 Ryan <ryan@crystaldawn.net> wrote:
| Oh yea, and expect to get LOTS of wise cracks such as this below.
| Just ignore those.
You might also find people who top post. Ignore them, they don't have
anything useful to say.
--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, shell tools)
Mail : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 22:20 ` Ryan
2005-04-27 22:28 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2005-04-27 22:28 ` Greg KH
@ 2005-04-27 22:33 ` Brian Harring
2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Brian Harring @ 2005-04-27 22:33 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 04:20:57PM -0600, Ryan wrote:
> Oh yea, and expect to get LOTS of wise cracks such as this below. Just
> ignore those.
Avoiding getting into whether or not greg is right, it's way OT and
doesn't belong on this ml.
Off the wall of the forums would be a better location to go asking...
Stating "I know it's probably OT... but..."
is equivalent to
"I know y'all don't want it here... but... I'm doing it anyways".
> The other place to advertise would be mailing lists such as this one,
> but DO NOT flood it or you will definatly be seen as a black sheep.
> Also do not do it on lists that explicitly say NO ADVERTISING.
Err. That's daft. don't post cruft to this ml that isn't gentoo
related. The ml is for _gentoo development_, not trying to stir up
interest/do pr for stuff.
So yeah. Please refrain.
~brian
>
> Greg KH wrote:
>
> >On Wed, Apr 27, 2005 at 03:35:25PM -0600, info@ciberforce.net wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Here's my questions:
> >>
> >>1) How / where do I find and recruit top notch Linux kernel, application and
> >>game developers?
> >>
> >>2) How would we best go about soliciting open source developers to help us out
> >>and what's the best way to manage these type of development processes ?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Heh, if you don't know how to do these two things, I think you need to
> >rethink your company ideas :)
> >
> >And yes, it's off-topic for this list.
> >
> >greg k-h
> >
> >
>
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 22:17 ` info
@ 2005-04-27 22:35 ` Aron Griffis
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Aron Griffis @ 2005-04-27 22:35 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
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Guys,
The email from "info@ciberforce.net" is fishing for developers. It
has nothing to do with Gentoo, in fact Debian was mentioned in the
email. It's purely using the gentoo-dev ML to reach a list of
potential candidates.
Please don't respond to the email on-list.
Regards,
Aron
--
Aron Griffis
Gentoo Linux Developer
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 21:35 [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources info
2005-04-27 21:54 ` Greg KH
2005-04-27 22:09 ` Ryan
@ 2005-04-28 2:24 ` Chris Gianelloni
2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Chris Gianelloni @ 2005-04-28 2:24 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev; +Cc: info
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On Wed, 2005-04-27 at 15:35 -0600, info@ciberforce.net wrote:
> I've been in talks with a group of folks interested in starting a new
> Linux/Debian based company. This new company to be successful will need the
> ability to pull off the following:
You're going Debian based and you're asking here? You've got some big
brass ones, buddy... ;]
> 1) Creation of a new distro based on key specific features of various distros
> available today
Why? Why not improve one that's already there?
I'm just curious why everybody and their brother thinks it is a good
idea to make their own distribution. I was actually thinking of
building my own distribution before I became a Gentoo developer. I then
realized that I could really give a crap about 90% of the packages in a
distribution and my time would be best served contributing to an already
established distribution in the area that I was interested in working.
This reduced my workload significantly, and everything that I add
directly impacts on what I want to do.
> 2) Creation of new Linux games or vastly improvement on the Linux games
> available today
So you're wanting to code Linux-only games? Are you planning on doing
this commercially? Are you planning on actually making any money?
If you're talking about doing this as a commercial venture, I wish you
the best of luck and expect to see you back here in six months to a year
when your capital is blown. *grin*
The last thing Linux needs is yet another failed attempt at making money
off the Linux gaming market.
If you're talking about improving non-commercial games, then I say go
for it. I still think that you'd be much better off just contributing
to an already established distribution or game than starting over.
> Here's my questions:
>
> 1) How / where do I find and recruit top notch Linux kernel, application and
> game developers?
LKML has some good Linux kernel developers. Of course, you wouldn't
really need them if you just chose a distribution that already exists to
base your work. After all, that's one less mouth to feed that does not
directly impact your bottom line.
As for game developers, they're actually pretty easy to find. You're
going to have a much harder time finding artists and musicians.
> 2) How would we best go about soliciting open source developers to help us out
> and what's the best way to manage these type of development processes ?
Do you really want open source developers, or do you want paid
developers. You've left it rather open for interpretation. If you're
looking for developers to work for free and to gvie their work away,
then you're going to have to generate interest in your product/idea, or
it won't get much attention from the community.
> Any tips, thoughts, past experiences, warnings, etc would be very helpful.
It all really depends on what you're looking to do and what you expect
to get out of it.
If you're just wanting to improve gaming on Linux, I recommend simply
contributing anywhere that you can do so. Trying to commercialize it
isn't going to do much good, so long as 99% of all the games out there
are written fro an API that we have no real equivalent to and that is
designed to run on a platform that definitely isn't Linux.
> Thanks in advance for any advice you may have for me.
I hope that I am not coming across too badly, I just don't want you
running around looking at the world through rose-colored glasses.
If you think you've either resolved these issues or they do not apply to
you, then I wish you the best of luck.
> Also if anyone reading this is interested in learning more please pop me an
> email at info@ciberforce.net
I am also very curious in your venture, so consider this my request for
learning more, and hoping that I didn't scare you off too much... ;]
--
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources
2005-04-27 22:28 ` Ciaran McCreesh
@ 2005-04-28 7:23 ` Stuart Longland
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Stuart Longland @ 2005-04-28 7:23 UTC (permalink / raw
To: gentoo-dev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 760 bytes --]
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:20:57 -0600 Ryan <ryan@crystaldawn.net> wrote:
> | Oh yea, and expect to get LOTS of wise cracks such as this below.
> | Just ignore those.
>
> You might also find people who top post. Ignore them, they don't have
> anything useful to say.
>
Not to mention those who send HTML emails.
*Ohh... I'm too elite for text/plain*
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| Stuart Longland -oOo- http://stuartl.longlandclan.hopto.org |
| Atomic Linux Project -oOo- http://atomicl.berlios.de |
| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
| I haven't lost my mind - it's backed up on a tape somewhere |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
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2005-04-27 21:35 [gentoo-dev] OT - Finding Linux dev resources info
2005-04-27 21:54 ` Greg KH
2005-04-27 22:20 ` Ryan
2005-04-27 22:28 ` Ciaran McCreesh
2005-04-28 7:23 ` Stuart Longland
2005-04-27 22:28 ` Greg KH
2005-04-27 22:33 ` Brian Harring
2005-04-27 22:09 ` Ryan
2005-04-27 22:17 ` info
2005-04-27 22:35 ` Aron Griffis
2005-04-28 2:24 ` Chris Gianelloni
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