Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-web-user] Hardened PHP now in Gentoo

[foser <foser@gentoo.org>]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2545 bytes --]

On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 08:30 -0400, Josh Glover wrote:
> > Choice is an illusion, if you there's too much choice it is no use to
> > anyone anymore, because nobody really knows what it is all about. This
> > is already the case with the loads of USE flags/portage options/etc. we
> > have. Gentoo shouldn't be about choice for the sake of it, it should be
> > about simplicity/managability : stuff that works. It's a trade-off.
> 
> That is ridiculous. Speaking from personal experience, choice is exactly
> what drew me to Gentoo--I could have it *just* how I wanted it. Thus,
> choice is *not* an illusion, it is vital to many advanced users who
> have chosen Gentoo for just that reason.

You have the choice. The real power is the easy way in which you can
adapt it to your needs and the simplicity of doing so. Huge loads of
nobody-ever-uses them options don't help one bit. You should keep it
basic for exactly the reason that anyone can adapt it easily. Adding
layers of complexity leads to a system that needs time & effort to get
into : you lose what you want, you lose the true power.
Actually i consider 'advanced users' the people who have a basic system
setup and adapted/created several ebuilds to their needs on top of that,
not the ones who want an extra USE flag for everything under the sun.

> The way to achieve "simplicity/managability : stuff that works" is
> through reasonable defaults. Look at all the USE flags that xfree or
> xemacs use. Quite a glut. However, the defaults are almost always what
> I need. If I care enough, I can run 'equery uses' to find out what the
> more esoteric flags do, and select or deselect flags based on that.

You actually prove my point with your example. The defaults should be
good enough, all the extra stuff is mostly cruft in 99.9% of the cases.
That cruft therefore isn't necessary in the distro, keeping the playing
field clean and open.
Anyway, eg. xfree is all basic and understandable USE flags like they
should be. You don't need no extra tools to explain what a USE flag
does, but you say you need 'equery' to figure out the uses. That's
exactly the thing i'm talking about : we already are starting to require
extra info to make decisions. That is what should be avoided. We're
creating tools to be able to work with our tools, thats in indication of
going the wrong way.

> If I want things to Just Work(TM), I accept the Gentoo defaults,
> knowing that the devs would never lead me down the wrong path. :)

Nuf said.

- foser

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]