[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Monday 29 December 2003 05:38, Martin Holzer wrote:
> There are 2 local use flags which could be made global
>
> media-libs/sdl-sound:speex - Enable speex sound support
> media-libs/xine-lib:speex - Enable speex sound support
>
> media-libs/sdl-sound:flac - Enable flac support
> media-sound/rhythmbox:flac - Enable flac support

and cant some of the global ones be made local ?
plotutils - Adds plotutils support to gnuplot (library for 2-D vector 
graphics)
prelude - Adds support/bindings for the Prelude Intrusion Detection System
there might be a few others, a quick glance turns up these ...
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Monday 29 December 2003 08:06, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> prelude - Adds support/bindings for the Prelude Intrusion Detection System

err, as phosphan pointed out to me, i read that description wrong ...
this one is valid global ... however, i still ask that we give a quick look 
over the rest to make sure we dont have potential local ones left over from 
when the USE system was only a global one ...
-mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[Spider]

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begin  quote
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:06:24 -0500
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Monday 29 December 2003 05:38, Martin Holzer wrote:
> > There are 2 local use flags which could be made global
> >
> > media-libs/sdl-sound:speex - Enable speex sound support
> > media-libs/xine-lib:speex - Enable speex sound support
> >
> > media-libs/sdl-sound:flac - Enable flac support
> > media-sound/rhythmbox:flac - Enable flac support



I didn't see this original message ./

But ok, sound-juicer can well do with a flac use flag.

//Spider

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[foser]

On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 14:34, Spider wrote:

> But ok, sound-juicer can well do with a flac use flag.

That is debatable, it is after all neither a buildtime or runtime dep
and in the strictest sense shouldn't be there (like it is now). It would
be a convenience type of dep. Actually that is mentioned in the
rhythmbox ebuild in relation to gstreamer deps (where the situation
differs from the better gst integrated s-j).

- foser


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[Spider]

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begin  quote
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:32:07 +0100
foser <foser@foser.dyn.warande.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 14:34, Spider wrote:
> 
> > But ok, sound-juicer can well do with a flac use flag.
> 
> That is debatable, it is after all neither a buildtime or runtime dep
> and in the strictest sense shouldn't be there (like it is now). It
> would be a convenience type of dep. Actually that is mentioned in the
> rhythmbox ebuild in relation to gstreamer deps (where the situation
> differs from the better gst integrated s-j).
> 


its a possible runtime dep, and very necessary if you wish to use
sound-juicer to actually encode sound into flac, which would be the
forseeable idea here.

i think our RDEPEND is the best fitting clause right now, but that might
just be another limitation we hit in portage as-is :)


Same goes for rhythmbox i think.  Having a user look around for the
rather implausble name "gst-plugins-flac" to make it play the sound is
sorta strange.

(No, I don't expect anyone to know that gst-plugins-flac is the right
thing to install to get rhythmbox to play flac,  and sound-juicer to
encode to flac ..)

//Spider

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[foser]

On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 15:54, Spider wrote:
> its a possible runtime dep, and very necessary if you wish to use
> sound-juicer to actually encode sound into flac, which would be the
> forseeable idea here.
> 
> i think our RDEPEND is the best fitting clause right now, but that might
> just be another limitation we hit in portage as-is :)

Nah, i think it is outside the scope of what portage is supposed to
handle.

> Same goes for rhythmbox i think.  Having a user look around for the
> rather implausble name "gst-plugins-flac" to make it play the sound is
> sorta strange.
> 
> (No, I don't expect anyone to know that gst-plugins-flac is the right
> thing to install to get rhythmbox to play flac,  and sound-juicer to
> encode to flac ..)

Education would be needed, that is no reason to add it (this is still a
TODO since the introduction of separate gst plug-ins). The fact is you
don't need the plug-in to build or use both applications without
problems, you should compare it to xmms plug-ins really.

In these specific cases i can see why a use flagged dep would be
arguable a reasonable addition, but essentially the applications do not
have to limit their in or output plug-ins. Where do you stop adding new
unnecessary use flags for non-essential plug-ins ? I'd say stop right
now.

- foser



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[Ned Ludd]

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On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 08:06, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Monday 29 December 2003 05:38, Martin Holzer wrote:
[snip]

> 
> and cant some of the global ones be made local ?
[snip]

> prelude - Adds support/bindings for the Prelude Intrusion Detection System

The prelude USE flag should be used by two or more ebuilds at this time.
I'm pretty sure mboman has added support to snort, nessus-core and
perhaps a few others such as systrace, honeyd and nagios. 
When hogwash someday actually get closer to a release [blame anonpoet
:)] I'll publish my prelude_hogwash module.

So it seems fitting to me to keep it global at this time.


> there might be a few others, a quick glance turns up these ...
> -mike
-- 
Ned Ludd <solar@gentoo.org>
Gentoo Linux Developer

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[Bart Lauwers]

In my opinion the use of the use flag flac (or encoder or whatever) then 
should cause an RDEPEND for flac. I have to agree with Spider and I disagree 
that this an education issue. The point of portage is to manage what gets 
installed on a system so it should figure out that flac is a run dependency 
to encoding.

 Bart

On Monday 29 December 2003 18:12, foser wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 15:54, Spider wrote:
> > its a possible runtime dep, and very necessary if you wish to use
> > sound-juicer to actually encode sound into flac, which would be the
> > forseeable idea here.
> >
> > i think our RDEPEND is the best fitting clause right now, but that might
> > just be another limitation we hit in portage as-is :)
>
> Nah, i think it is outside the scope of what portage is supposed to
> handle.
>
> > Same goes for rhythmbox i think.  Having a user look around for the
> > rather implausble name "gst-plugins-flac" to make it play the sound is
> > sorta strange.
> >
> > (No, I don't expect anyone to know that gst-plugins-flac is the right
> > thing to install to get rhythmbox to play flac,  and sound-juicer to
> > encode to flac ..)
>
> Education would be needed, that is no reason to add it (this is still a
> TODO since the introduction of separate gst plug-ins). The fact is you
> don't need the plug-in to build or use both applications without
> problems, you should compare it to xmms plug-ins really.
>
> In these specific cases i can see why a use flagged dep would be
> arguable a reasonable addition, but essentially the applications do not
> have to limit their in or output plug-ins. Where do you stop adding new
> unnecessary use flags for non-essential plug-ins ? I'd say stop right
> now.
>
> - foser
>
>
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Making 2 local use flags to global

[foser]

On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 19:22, Bart Lauwers wrote:
> In my opinion the use of the use flag flac (or encoder or whatever) then 
> should cause an RDEPEND for flac. I have to agree with Spider and I disagree 
> that this an education issue. The point of portage is to manage what gets 
> installed on a system so it should figure out that flac is a run dependency 
> to encoding.

I know the rationale. I'm talking about the general case and yes I'm
also applying it here specific because i think consistency is important.
One of the reasons behind the plug-ins split-up was to avoid a
mesmerizing amount of USE flags for gst-plugins, but if those flags are
going to be implemented in every gst using package we're even farther
from that goal. Agreed I'm generalizing here and a line could be drawn
somewhere a bit further than flac, but in my opinion it could already be
drawn here.

- foser


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