From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 32430 invoked by uid 1002); 5 Oct 2003 05:23:01 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gentoo-dev-help@gentoo.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Received: (qmail 4183 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2003 05:23:00 -0000 From: Kevyn Shortell To: Jason Stubbs Cc: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <200310050828.34578.jasonbstubbs@mailandnews.com> References: <3F7D4315.1020900@gentoo.org> <200310041357.52026.luke-jr@gentoo.org> <20031004161307.GA2251@cerberus.oppresses.us> <200310050828.34578.jasonbstubbs@mailandnews.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-CHn1uOGPwu3dfeHqN2Zu" Message-Id: <1065331378.1642.36.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:22:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Speaking of new kernels being added to the tree X-Archives-Salt: a06e7fe6-e354-4744-b45e-bfbe262d4508 X-Archives-Hash: 2d875921052c17f7d122932aba07534a --=-CHn1uOGPwu3dfeHqN2Zu Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > I think the main point to the discussion is new users. I, too, have never= used=20 > genkernel so don't know how viable the idea of using it in its current st= ate=20 > would be. Nor am I admonishing that it should be the "only way to go".=20 > However, everything in Gentoo is configured, compiled and installed throu= gh=20 > the single emerge command. It would make most sense to me to choose what=20 > classes of drivers/functionality I wanted through USE flags and then do=20 > post-installation configuration through /etc/modules.autoload*. Can anyon= e=20 > say why the kernel is special and should be done differently? - other tha= n if=20 > it ain't broke don't fix it!=20 Because the kernel is much more than that. Linux as a whole has never setup kernel building for new users, and probably never will. You actually need to know a lot about your hardware to build an optimized kernel for it.=20 To put into basic perspective, if you want to have USE flags for kernel building, would you know to use something like: USE=3D"pnp network pci radeon 16550 tulip ohci ps2 ipv4 ext3 idecd ata100 dma=20 The list goes on and on. There are somethings as a user your going to just have to decide to learn how to do. If not you can always use the rh sources, and thier config to have a kernel that will boot almost anything. Using use flags as you suggested, still requires you to know a lot about your hardware, which wouldn't help you from using the current kernel configuration system, which is not gentoo specific. >=20 > I'm with almost all other people in that it would not be a high priority = for=20 > some time to come. On the other hand, I'm against people who are putting=20 > forward arguments that the kernel is somehow special. Almost every other=20 > package is installed with extra cruft so that can't be used as an excuse.= =20 > Gentoo is about making things easier for everyone which means safe defaul= ts=20 > and easily accessible complete customisation, so Luke-Jr's idea at least=20 > deserves consideration rather than instant dismissal. I don't think anyone has an argument with making things easier, but we shouldn't make things easier for new users to the detriment of making things more difficult for everyone else. There is a point where Gentoo just might be more advanced than a new user is skill wise, and accept that.=20 trance --=-CHn1uOGPwu3dfeHqN2Zu Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/f6qyEv5Qt5rjz1YRAkZ0AJ0QehGGeew1VG2d7YiLUs7CmLn2kACgy0yb LIJMtgQTQqBxMy+txOmWecs= =R+Bl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-CHn1uOGPwu3dfeHqN2Zu--