[gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[C. Brewer]

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Just out of curiosity, are you aiming for a sort of gentooish tom's, or a
generic boot the existing w/o a loader (rh style) or enough of a workable
root system to mount a cd and install (ala debian?) I'm personally more
interested in the latter, as I currently use debian's first two boot
floppies to help people get linux on older machines that don't boot from the
cd.


-- 
Chuck Brewer
Registered Linux User #284015
Get my gpg public key at pgp.mit.edu!! Encrypted e-mail preferred.



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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Don Seiler]

I wish tom's would update to work with gentoo.  I've never ventured into
bootdisk creation but I know it's been asked many times over:  Can we
have a gentoo boot-disk?  Single-disk thing like tomsrtbt, but one that
works with gentoo for a CD-less install is what I have in mind. 

I currently have 4-5 p200 boxes that are sitting useless because
tomsrtbt is the only bootdisk that recognizes their NIC, but won't
chroot because of the known problems.  Slack and ZootLinux don't see the
nic.

Don.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 11:52:09AM -0700, C. Brewer wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, are you aiming for a sort of gentooish tom's, or a
> generic boot the existing w/o a loader (rh style) or enough of a workable
> root system to mount a cd and install (ala debian?) I'm personally more
> interested in the latter, as I currently use debian's first two boot
> floppies to help people get linux on older machines that don't boot from the
> cd.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chuck Brewer
> Registered Linux User #284015
> Get my gpg public key at pgp.mit.edu!! Encrypted e-mail preferred.
> 
> 



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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Chris Gianelloni]

Well, why not use BYLD?  You can check it out at
http://byld.sourceforge.net and see what you think.  It hasn't been
updated in a long time, but I still find it useful.

On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 15:14, Don Seiler wrote:
> I wish tom's would update to work with gentoo.  I've never ventured into
> bootdisk creation but I know it's been asked many times over:  Can we
> have a gentoo boot-disk?  Single-disk thing like tomsrtbt, but one that
> works with gentoo for a CD-less install is what I have in mind. 
> 
> I currently have 4-5 p200 boxes that are sitting useless because
> tomsrtbt is the only bootdisk that recognizes their NIC, but won't
> chroot because of the known problems.  Slack and ZootLinux don't see the
> nic.
> 
> Don.
-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Developer, Gentoo Linux


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Don Seiler]

Thanks I'll tinker around with this, and maybe add it to portage (I
don't see it there now).

What are peoples thoughts on an Official Gentoo Boot Floppy?

Don.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 03:55:52PM -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> Well, why not use BYLD?  You can check it out at
> http://byld.sourceforge.net and see what you think.  It hasn't been
> updated in a long time, but I still find it useful.
> 
> On Fri, 2003-07-25 at 15:14, Don Seiler wrote:
> > I wish tom's would update to work with gentoo.  I've never ventured into
> > bootdisk creation but I know it's been asked many times over:  Can we
> > have a gentoo boot-disk?  Single-disk thing like tomsrtbt, but one that
> > works with gentoo for a CD-less install is what I have in mind. 
> > 
> > I currently have 4-5 p200 boxes that are sitting useless because
> > tomsrtbt is the only bootdisk that recognizes their NIC, but won't
> > chroot because of the known problems.  Slack and ZootLinux don't see the
> > nic.
> > 
> > Don.
> -- 
> Chris Gianelloni
> Developer, Gentoo Linux
> 
> 
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Mike Frysinger]

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Hash: SHA1

On Friday 25 July 2003 14:52, C. Brewer wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, are you aiming for a sort of gentooish tom's, or a
> generic boot the existing w/o a loader (rh style) or enough of a workable
> root system to mount a cd and install (ala debian?) I'm personally more
> interested in the latter, as I currently use debian's first two boot
> floppies to help people get linux on older machines that don't boot from
> the cd.

the idea is to do make a boot floppy that allows you to install Gentoo :)

so, we'd be aiming for bootloader + kernel (2.6.x does not support the 
oldschool 1 disk w/out bootloader style) + workable env to setup your fs, d/l 
a tarball, and chroot from there ...
uClibc has proven to provide small binaries so we can fit a lot on 1 disk :)
probably be looking at the 2 disk series in order to get it all ... 1 disk 
w/kern + modules and another disk w/all the utilities you need to setup your 
system for the chroot.

like i said, i need help with the bootloader stage to keep this thing going
- -mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Mike Frysinger]

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Hash: SHA1

On Friday 25 July 2003 16:27, Don Seiler wrote:
> What are peoples thoughts on an Official Gentoo Boot Floppy?

i plan on my work becoming the official floppy ...
we've had too many devs say they're gonna work on it blah blah blah and 
nothing ever happens.
i'm fixing that :)
- -mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Mike Frysinger]

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On Friday 25 July 2003 16:27, Don Seiler wrote:
> Thanks I'll tinker around with this, and maybe add it to portage (I
> don't see it there now).

it's in now, sys-apps/byld :)
- -mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Terje Kvernes]

Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> writes:

  [ ... ]

> like i said, i need help with the bootloader stage to keep this
> thing going

  if you're looking at using grub for the bootloader, it's not as hard
  as you'd think.  I've done this for building bootable flash disks a
  bit too often.  from the documentation[1]:

# But all the above examples assume that you use GRUB images under the
# root directory. If you want GRUB to use images under a directory
# other than the root directory, you need to specify the option
# --root-directory. The typical usage is that you create a GRUB boot
# floppy with a filesystem. Here is an example:

# mke2fs /dev/fd0
# mount -t ext2 /dev/fd0 /mnt
# grub-install --root-directory=/mnt '(fd0)'
# umount /mnt

  but, if we can get away with using syslinux, things are even
  easier.  we'd have to settle for FAT for the floppy, but that's
  pretty much "whatever" anyway.

  for the record, I've built a lot of stuff based on busybox (1.0-pre1
  is finally out!) and uClibc, it's a lot of fun.  if there is
  anything I can help with, I'd be more than happy to contribute.


  [1] from <url: http://www.gnu.org/manual/grub/html_node/Installing-
  GRUB-using-grub-install.html >

-- 
Terje

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[gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[C. Brewer]

> the idea is to do make a boot floppy that allows you to install Gentoo :)
>
> so, we'd be aiming for bootloader + kernel (2.6.x does not support the
> oldschool 1 disk w/out bootloader style) + workable env to setup your fs,
d/l
> a tarball, and chroot from there ...

Okay, I'm on the same page now. But still a little confused. I'm guessing
install floppy
for cases in where one cannot boot from a cd or no cd is present (older
machines).
So if this was the case, why a 2.6 kernel? You could do it with a 2.2 or 2.4
oldschool style,
and get it dropped back to one disk. It wont really matter what kernel is on
the disk,as long
as it runs it, everything going to the hd will be totally different anyhow.
Just a thought.


Chuck

P.S. I apologize for the M$ crap mail, but my box is really busy atm.:(



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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Chris Gianelloni]

On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 05:16, C. Brewer wrote:

> So if this was the case, why a 2.6 kernel? You could do it with a 2.2 or 2.4
> oldschool style,

Hardware support.  Though I think one could get away easily with a 2.4
kernel.  I see no reason creating an "official" bootdisk with a beta
kernel.

-- 
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Developer, Gentoo Linux


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Christian Birchinger]

Hi
What about a Grub floppy which allows netbooting like on SUN?
The same image you would netboot could maybe also be used for
PXE booting/installing.
This would really rule because people with more than one machine
could have a tftp server which provides the gentoo-netboot image
which can be used with either a Grub floppy or a PXE capable
networkcard.

Christian

On Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 06:48:17PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> 
> On Friday 25 July 2003 16:27, Don Seiler wrote:
> > What are peoples thoughts on an Official Gentoo Boot Floppy?
> 
> i plan on my work becoming the official floppy ...
> we've had too many devs say they're gonna work on it blah blah blah and 
> nothing ever happens.
> i'm fixing that :)
> - -mike

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Mike Frysinger]

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Hash: SHA1

On Saturday 26 July 2003 09:39, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 05:16, C. Brewer wrote:
> > So if this was the case, why a 2.6 kernel? You could do it with a 2.2 or
> > 2.4 oldschool style,
>
> Hardware support.  Though I think one could get away easily with a 2.4
> kernel.  I see no reason creating an "official" bootdisk with a beta
> kernel.

i was saying that we'd be forcing a kernel on you ... kernel settings are in 
the air ... but in the end you'd probably be able to choose kernel/modules 
yourself ala slackware style ...
the trouble i'm having (and the reason i sent this mail) is getting 
bootloaders working ;)  i fixed the zero-ing of ramdisks by using loopback, 
but now when i try to grub/lilo a loopback device, it (obviously) complains 
it doesnt know anything about a loopback device.  anyone ever try this kind 
of thing before ?  the idea is to produce the final image w/out ever actually 
writing/reading to a floppy for (1) speed and (2) no worries of errors.
- -mike
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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Don Seiler]

Alright well I had been working on one with 2.4.21 kernel but you seem
to know what you are doing and I was fumbling through it so have at it.

Although I would definitely hope we can get a one-disk thing going.  The
earlier description of a "gentooish tomsrtbt" is pretty much what I had
in mind.  However if we need to have maybe two disks to ensure maximum
hardware support, I think that getting the widest range of hardware
support is what is most important.  As long as the disk creation and
subsequent usage are well documented (as always).

Thanks for taking the iniative on this.  While I don't know anything
about boot floppies, let me know if you need a beta tester.  Like I
said, I have a handful of machines that need it.

Don.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 06:48:17PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Friday 25 July 2003 16:27, Don Seiler wrote:
> > What are peoples thoughts on an Official Gentoo Boot Floppy?
> 
> i plan on my work becoming the official floppy ...
> we've had too many devs say they're gonna work on it blah blah blah and 
> nothing ever happens.
> i'm fixing that :)
> - -mike
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> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Chris Gianelloni]

On Sat, 2003-07-26 at 14:29, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> the trouble i'm having (and the reason i sent this mail) is getting 
> bootloaders working ;)  i fixed the zero-ing of ramdisks by using loopback, 

It is generally easier to make a boot disk using syslinux, in my
opinion.  Especially if you're not going to be making a real floppy disk
at some point.
 
-- 
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Developer, Gentoo Linux


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Paul de Vrieze]

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On Saturday 26 July 2003 20:29, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> the trouble i'm having (and the reason i sent this mail) is getting
> bootloaders working ;)  i fixed the zero-ing of ramdisks by using loopback,
> but now when i try to grub/lilo a loopback device, it (obviously) complains
> it doesnt know anything about a loopback device.  anyone ever try this kind
> of thing before ?  the idea is to produce the final image w/out ever

I believe that initrd was created for things like this. It should allow you to 
perform some manual action before the root filesystem is mounted. I do not 
however know exactly how it works.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Researcher
Mail: pauldv@cs.kun.nl
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Michael Andrews]

> What about a Grub floppy which allows netbooting like on SUN?
> The same image you would netboot could maybe also be used for
> PXE booting/installing.
> This would really rule because people with more than one machine
> could have a tftp server which provides the gentoo-netboot image
> which can be used with either a Grub floppy or a PXE capable
> networkcard.

i think alot of people would be able to use this to boot diskless clients.  in order to do this you would have to design the package flexible enough so that you could choose NOT to use a bootloader (eg. grub).  for instance i currently PXE boot various diskless machines for an openMosix cluster.  the network bootloader they use is pxelinux in the sys-apps/syslinux ebuild.  after pxelinux executes it tells the machine where it can mount its root over nfs.  this is where Gentoo floppy would come.  currently i have to manually set up a basic filesystem with things like /bin, /lib, /etc, etc..  it would be really awesome if i could just emerge a basic lowlevel filesystem which would be part of the Gentoo floppy package.
just some thoughts,
michael

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Chris Gianelloni]

Look into PXES (http://pxes.sourceforge.net).  I will be adding it to
portage shortly.  I have been using it for a while to create my diskless
clients and it works quite well.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Developer, Gentoo Linux


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Monday 28 July 2003 7:11 pm, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> Look into PXES (http://pxes.sourceforge.net).  I will be adding it to
> portage shortly.  I have been using it for a while to create my diskless
> clients and it works quite well.

Looks interesting.  Give us a shout when it's added; I'm interested in trying 
this out.

BTW, I have working ebuilds for PXES's RDC front-end to rdesktop, as well as 
the Glade-Perl bindings that it depends on, if anyone's interested.

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
Upcoming packages list                http://dev.gentoo.org/~stuart/packages/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Chris Gianelloni]

On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 08:43, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> BTW, I have working ebuilds for PXES's RDC front-end to rdesktop, as well as 
> the Glade-Perl bindings that it depends on, if anyone's interested.

Definitely add those.  I am currently using rpm2targz'd tarballs.

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Chris Gianelloni
Developer, Gentoo Linux


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Tuesday 29 July 2003 2:02 pm, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> Definitely add those.  I am currently using rpm2targz'd tarballs.

Will do soon.  For now, you can find them in my PORTDIR_OVERLAY tree, which 
can be downloaded from http://dev.gentoo.org/~stuart/packages/

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
Beta packages for download            http://dev.gentoo.org/~stuart/packages/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Chris Gianelloni]

Well, I am having a problem with creating an ebuild for PXES.  Mainly it
is the fact that all revisions done to pxes are only released as binary
RPMs until Diego decides to release a new source version.  This makes it
a bit of a PITA to do properly.  I think I am just going to give up on
trying this for a while.  Stuart, you're welcome to go for it.  I
haven't done anything as far as an ebuild is concerned, so there won't
be any duplication of effort.

Also, are you planning on committing the Glade-Perl stuff?  I'm just
curious if anyone else would find this module useful.  I'm not much of a
perl person, so I don't know what would need to be done to get it added.

On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 08:43, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> Looks interesting.  Give us a shout when it's added; I'm interested in trying 
> this out.
> 
> BTW, I have working ebuilds for PXES's RDC front-end to rdesktop, as well as 
> the Glade-Perl bindings that it depends on, if anyone's interested.

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Developer, Gentoo Linux


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Stuart Herbert]

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Hi Chris,

On Tuesday 29 July 2003 5:15 pm, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> Well, I am having a problem with creating an ebuild for PXES.  Mainly it
> is the fact that all revisions done to pxes are only released as binary
> RPMs until Diego decides to release a new source version.  This makes it
> a bit of a PITA to do properly.  I think I am just going to give up on
> trying this for a while.  Stuart, you're welcome to go for it.  I
> haven't done anything as far as an ebuild is concerned, so there won't
> be any duplication of effort.

I've only made an ebuild for RDC.  I'll look to tidy it up and commit it later 
this week.

I'll leave PXES to you ;-)

> Also, are you planning on committing the Glade-Perl stuff?  I'm just
> curious if anyone else would find this module useful.  I'm not much of a
> perl person, so I don't know what would need to be done to get it added.

mcummings has committed the glade-perl stuff this afternoon ;-)

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
Beta packages for download            http://dev.gentoo.org/~stuart/packages/

GnuGP key id# F9AFC57C available from http://pgp.mit.edu
Key fingerprint = 31FB 50D4 1F88 E227 F319  C549 0C2F 80BA F9AF C57C
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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Chris Gianelloni]

On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 13:52, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> I'll leave PXES to you ;-)

Alright, I'll get to it as soon as I have a chance.

> mcummings has committed the glade-perl stuff this afternoon ;-)

That will make my job much easier to already have Glade-Perl in portage.

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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Stuart Herbert]

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On Sunday 03 August 2003 1:17 am, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> I added net-misc/pxes to cvs.  The one package loads the base, and the
> pxesconfig application.  It has a local USE of ltsp to optionally
> install the ltsp support files and to depend on ltsp.  Since this is
> essentially binary-only and some perl for the config tool, it should
> work on all platforms.  Could non-x86 devs please test this out and add
> support for it to their architecture.

Nice one Chris.  I know where part of my Sunday's going to be going now!

Best regards,
Stu
-- 
Stuart Herbert                                              stuart@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer                                       http://www.gentoo.org/
Beta packages for download            http://dev.gentoo.org/~stuart/packages/

GnuGP key id# F9AFC57C available from http://pgp.mit.edu
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Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Chris Gianelloni]

On Tue, 2003-07-29 at 08:43, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> Looks interesting.  Give us a shout when it's added; I'm interested in trying 
> this out.

I added net-misc/pxes to cvs.  The one package loads the base, and the
pxesconfig application.  It has a local USE of ltsp to optionally
install the ltsp support files and to depend on ltsp.  Since this is
essentially binary-only and some perl for the config tool, it should
work on all platforms.  Could non-x86 devs please test this out and add
support for it to their architecture.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Developer, Gentoo Linux


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[gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] Re: [gentoo-dev] RE:Boot floppies

[Chris Gianelloni]

On Sat, 2003-08-02 at 20:11, Stuart Herbert wrote:
> Nice one Chris.  I know where part of my Sunday's going to be going now!

Thanks.  Working around the problem of creating devices as a normal user
had me stumped for a while.  In the end I decided to write a script to
create all of the device files.  What is really funny is they're not
even needed if you use the default pxes kernel, since it uses devfs now.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Developer, Gentoo Linux


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