From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Eeiyi-0001Rr-M3 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 00:59:17 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id jAN0wVGG018555; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 00:58:31 GMT Received: from smtp.top-hosting.cz (gw.top-hosting.cz [81.0.254.91]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id jAN0u7vw021629 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 00:56:07 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.top-hosting.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F9A9A85FD for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:56:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp.top-hosting.cz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.top-hosting.cz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 16918-03 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:56:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from NOTORCOMP (21.217.broadband4.iol.cz [85.71.217.21]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.top-hosting.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076F89A85DF for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:55:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:55:53 +0100 From: Jakub Moc X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1043241069.20051123015553@gentoo.org> To: Chris Gianelloni Subject: Re[6]: [gentoo-dev] Decision to remove stage1/2 from installation documentation In-Reply-To: <1132701963.27288.135.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> References: <20051122144745.GR12982@mail.lieber.org> <438330E1.2000804@gentoo.org> <1132672527.27288.21.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <20051122180349.GC16984@bmb24.uth.tmc.edu> <1132686363.27288.79.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <20051122192808.GE16984@bmb24.uth.tmc.edu> <1132689436.27288.91.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <977302213.20051122211620@gentoo.org> <1132693131.27288.102.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> <1856828087.20051122223636@gentoo.org> <1132701963.27288.135.camel@cgianelloni.nuvox.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; boundary="----------2D1B31072F48087" X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new 2.3.3 (20050822) at top-hosting.cz X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.39 tagged_above=-999 required=6 tests=[AWL=0.011, SPF_NEUTRAL=1.379] X-Spam-Score: 1.39 X-Spam-Level: * X-Archives-Salt: 489578c7-4007-47f7-8c8a-aa0041047ea0 X-Archives-Hash: 78d5195d6a89dd526a474675a62044cd ------------2D1B31072F48087 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D=0A23.11.2005, 0:26:03, Chris Gianelloni wrote: >> However, Gentoo still provides stage1 and stage2 tarballs. This is for >> development purposes (the Release Engineering team starts from a stage1 >> tarball to obtain a stage3) but shouldn't be used by users: a stage3 tar= ball >> can very well be used to bootstrap the system." >>=20 >> Sorry, but that does not answer the original FAQ question at all... > Umm... yeah. So you snip it RIGHT BEFORE THE INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS... > Good show... *rolleyes* I can summarize those "ommited" instructions for you, looks pretty much like this: How do I make a cup of coffee? Uhm, you first make a cup of tea, then pour it out into the kitchen sink, and then make your coffee. > emerge -e world && emerge -e world && emerge depclean You've missed revdep-rebuild to fix the borkage that emerge depclean produc= ed. ;) >> Sure, I can use hardened stage3, compiled for i386 and enjoy the Debian >> feeling. ;p > You can do whatever you like. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. > That being said, you are not going to force *me* to do anything, either. Hmm, have I missed an argument here? Actually, the above is incorrect. You *are* forcing me to use stage3, but whatever... after all I still have the = nice choice to not use GRP, as already mentioned previously, so no need to compl= ain. > Look. I don't care what you think I should do. I really don't. You can > argue this point until you're blue in the face, but until I see you > volunteering to do THE WORK you really have no say. This really is somet= hing > that is an internal decision to Release Engineering. We have discussed it > and we're in agreement here. Now, the one thing that I've not seen *anyo= ne* > here do is step up to help with any of this. Instead, all I see is flame= s, > name calling, and other useless arguments. We decided that we do not wan= t to > put out unsupported, known broken, crap. > Do you really not understand the fact that we are making an attempt to > improve the quality of our distribution. We are trying to improve the end > user experience. We have already seen that users are not following the > documentation, as it is. The Handbook keeps growing in size and complexi= ty, > and there's no end in sight. All the while, the quality is going to shit > because we crossed the line where we can feasibly test what we're produci= ng a > long, LONG time ago. You're more than welcome to argue this for as long = as > you want, but I am done. Yeah, as I see it, this will only reach the acceptable quality when it g= oes GLI click click click way, of course also additionally hiding the dangerous= use flags from users so that they cannot possibly break anything when installin= g, since they don't read the instruction properly. By that time, most of the people who cared will have switched to LFS, and the rest won't mind really.= And additionally, this might attract a considerable Manra^^Wiva user base, so everyone will benefit. ;p *Now* I hope I've finally been sarcastic enough to justify the incredibly pissed-off tone you've shown in your previous reply. I've not exactly seen = any flames or name calling here, and I'm not the one to blame for the fact that you're feeling overloaded. Jump back in when you are in more construct= ive mood. With this level of irritation caused by anyone who does not jump happ= ily on stage1 grave, the debate lacks any sense. Bleh... --=20 jakub ------------2D1B31072F48087 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (MingW32) iD8DBQFDg74ZhxfV/c66PZ4RAlUvAJ9q+QCF8uU73RLBvHTlUx0BxIrPAwCfaWJS vaTwhk6qxc2j66dFVZyg5xM= =dbFM -----END PGP MESSAGE----- ------------2D1B31072F48087-- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list