[gentoo-dev] [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[gentoo-dev] [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[John Nilsson]

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which is the correct mailing list for this kind of question?

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From: John Nilsson <john@milsson.nu>
To: gentoo-admin@gentoo.org
Subject: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system
Date: 04 Jan 2003 12:52:51 +0100
Message-ID: <1041681171.28281.42.camel@newkid.milsson.nu>

I would like to use my current athlon-xp optimized system to compile a
base system for a 486. How do I go about it?
I suppose I would have to keep an 486 optimized copy of glibc somewhere, how?

It would be nice to have a more or less permanent setup so I can upgrade
packages easily later on.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[Timo A. Hummel]

I don't know if it's the correct list, but I did it as follows to
compile a pentium optimized system:

I plugged in the 4GB hdd of my Pentium system, created the file systems,
setup a chroot environment and did the whole gentoo install from there.
worked like a charm, which was pretty good since I don't have a keyboard
on my Pentium system. It's pretty straightforward, and shouldn't give
any problems. Remember to set the make.conf correctly.

cheers,
 Timo


On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 14:01, John Nilsson wrote:
> which is the correct mailing list for this kind of question?
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From: John Nilsson <john@milsson.nu>
> To: gentoo-admin@gentoo.org
> Subject: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system
> Date: 04 Jan 2003 12:52:51 +0100
> 
> I would like to use my current athlon-xp optimized system to compile a
> base system for a 486. How do I go about it?
> I suppose I would have to keep an 486 optimized copy of glibc somewhere, how?
> 
> It would be nice to have a more or less permanent setup so I can upgrade
> packages easily later on.
> 
> --
> gentoo-admin@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
-- 
Timo A. Hummel <timo.hummel@gmx.net>


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[John Nilsson]

If I do it this way I would have to compile an entire bootstrap
environment for the 486. Also I wouldn't get the benefits of having gcc
optimized for the athlon.
What I would like is to write a simple script to use when upgrading the
server. Change the makefile and compile 486 optimized staticly linked
binaries to packages that are later merged into the server.


On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 14:52, Timo A. Hummel wrote:
> I don't know if it's the correct list, but I did it as follows to
> compile a pentium optimized system:
> 
> I plugged in the 4GB hdd of my Pentium system, created the file systems,
> setup a chroot environment and did the whole gentoo install from there.
> worked like a charm, which was pretty good since I don't have a keyboard
> on my Pentium system. It's pretty straightforward, and shouldn't give
> any problems. Remember to set the make.conf correctly.
> 
> cheers,
>  Timo
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 14:01, John Nilsson wrote:
> > which is the correct mailing list for this kind of question?
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > 
> > From: John Nilsson <john@milsson.nu>
> > To: gentoo-admin@gentoo.org
> > Subject: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system
> > Date: 04 Jan 2003 12:52:51 +0100
> > 
> > I would like to use my current athlon-xp optimized system to compile a
> > base system for a 486. How do I go about it?
> > I suppose I would have to keep an 486 optimized copy of glibc somewhere, how?
> > 
> > It would be nice to have a more or less permanent setup so I can upgrade
> > packages easily later on.
> > 
> > --
> > gentoo-admin@gentoo.org mailing list
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > 
> > --
> > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> -- 
> Timo A. Hummel <timo.hummel@gmx.net>
> 
> 
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 


--
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[gentoo-dev] Re: [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[Arnold deVos]

I have exactly the same need.  A powerful Athlon building packages for a an
older 486 or pentium box (eg firewall or other appliance).   I have
experimented with the following ideas:

1 -

    - create a /my486Image hierarchy
    - setup the /my486Image/etc/make.conf  for cross compiling.
    - export ROOT=/my486image (instead of /)
    - use emerge from within the host (Athlon) system.

Unfortunately emerge seems to touch stuff outside of ROOT such as the
package db.

2 -

    - create a normal chroot environment for the 486
    - mount the Athlon enviroment within this as /hostAlthonImage.
    - Set the PATH to /hostAthlonImage/bin:/hostAthlonImage/usr/bin etc etc
    - use emerge (ie /hostAthlonImage/usr/bin/emerge)

The problem is the ld.so library path.   Its tricky to get ld.so to load
runtime .so's from /hostAthlonImage and not from the chroot's /usr/lib

Of these solutions I think (1) is more promising but looks like I need to
check the emerge source to find the gotcha's.

It would be really useful if the fakeroot emerge facility mentioned by
drobbins on the gentoo frontpage was available.  (I can't find it. Anyone
know how to use this feature?)


- Arnold

"John Nilsson" <john@milsson.nu> wrote in message
news:1041689680.27164.65.camel@newkid.milsson.nu...
> If I do it this way I would have to compile an entire bootstrap
> environment for the 486. Also I wouldn't get the benefits of having gcc
> optimized for the athlon.
> What I would like is to write a simple script to use when upgrading the
> server. Change the makefile and compile 486 optimized staticly linked
> binaries to packages that are later merged into the server.
>
>
> On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 14:52, Timo A. Hummel wrote:
> > I don't know if it's the correct list, but I did it as follows to
> > compile a pentium optimized system:
> >
> > I plugged in the 4GB hdd of my Pentium system, created the file systems,
> > setup a chroot environment and did the whole gentoo install from there.
> > worked like a charm, which was pretty good since I don't have a keyboard
> > on my Pentium system. It's pretty straightforward, and shouldn't give
> > any problems. Remember to set the make.conf correctly.
> >
> > cheers,
> >  Timo
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 14:01, John Nilsson wrote:
> > > which is the correct mailing list for this kind of question?
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > From: John Nilsson <john@milsson.nu>
> > > To: gentoo-admin@gentoo.org
> > > Subject: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system
> > > Date: 04 Jan 2003 12:52:51 +0100
> > >
> > > I would like to use my current athlon-xp optimized system to compile a
> > > base system for a 486. How do I go about it?
> > > I suppose I would have to keep an 486 optimized copy of glibc
somewhere, how?
> > >
> > > It would be nice to have a more or less permanent setup so I can
upgrade
> > > packages easily later on.
> > >
> > > --
> > > gentoo-admin@gentoo.org mailing list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > --
> > > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> > --
> > Timo A. Hummel <timo.hummel@gmx.net>
> >
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>





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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[Bart Verwilst]

Euhm.. Isn't it much easier to just for example:

mkdir /mnt/my_new_system
cd /mnt_my_new_system
tar -xvjpf /path/to/stagex-i486-1.4_rc2.tbz2
mount -o bind /proc /mnt/my_new_system/proc
mount -o bind /usr/portage /mnt/my_new_system/usr/portage
cp /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/my_new_system/etc
chroot /mnt/my_new_system  /bin/bash
env-update 
source /etc/profile
nano -w /etc/make.conf

and so on...

On Monday 06 January 2003 01:02, Arnold deVos wrote:
||  I have exactly the same need.  A powerful Athlon building packages for a
|| an older 486 or pentium box (eg firewall or other appliance).   I have
|| experimented with the following ideas:
||
||  1 -
||
||      - create a /my486Image hierarchy
||      - setup the /my486Image/etc/make.conf  for cross compiling.
||      - export ROOT=/my486image (instead of /)
||      - use emerge from within the host (Athlon) system.
||
||  Unfortunately emerge seems to touch stuff outside of ROOT such as the
||  package db.
||
||  2 -
||
||      - create a normal chroot environment for the 486
||      - mount the Athlon enviroment within this as /hostAlthonImage.
||      - Set the PATH to /hostAthlonImage/bin:/hostAthlonImage/usr/bin etc
|| etc - use emerge (ie /hostAthlonImage/usr/bin/emerge)
||
||  The problem is the ld.so library path.   Its tricky to get ld.so to load
||  runtime .so's from /hostAthlonImage and not from the chroot's /usr/lib
||
||  Of these solutions I think (1) is more promising but looks like I need to
||  check the emerge source to find the gotcha's.
||
||  It would be really useful if the fakeroot emerge facility mentioned by
||  drobbins on the gentoo frontpage was available.  (I can't find it. Anyone
||  know how to use this feature?)
||
||
||  - Arnold
||
||  "John Nilsson" <john@milsson.nu> wrote in message
||  news:1041689680.27164.65.camel@newkid.milsson.nu...
||
||  > If I do it this way I would have to compile an entire bootstrap
||  > environment for the 486. Also I wouldn't get the benefits of having gcc
||  > optimized for the athlon.
||  > What I would like is to write a simple script to use when upgrading the
||  > server. Change the makefile and compile 486 optimized staticly linked
||  > binaries to packages that are later merged into the server.
||  >
||  > On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 14:52, Timo A. Hummel wrote:
||  > > I don't know if it's the correct list, but I did it as follows to
||  > > compile a pentium optimized system:
||  > >
||  > > I plugged in the 4GB hdd of my Pentium system, created the file
||  > > systems, setup a chroot environment and did the whole gentoo install
||  > > from there. worked like a charm, which was pretty good since I don't
||  > > have a keyboard on my Pentium system. It's pretty straightforward,
||  > > and shouldn't give any problems. Remember to set the make.conf
||  > > correctly.
||  > >
||  > > cheers,
||  > >  Timo
||  > >
||  > > On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 14:01, John Nilsson wrote:
||  > > > which is the correct mailing list for this kind of question?
||  > > >
||  > > > ___________________________________________________________________
||  > > >___
||  > > >
||  > > > From: John Nilsson <john@milsson.nu>
||  > > > To: gentoo-admin@gentoo.org
||  > > > Subject: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system
||  > > > Date: 04 Jan 2003 12:52:51 +0100
||  > > >
||  > > > I would like to use my current athlon-xp optimized system to
||  > > > compile a base system for a 486. How do I go about it?
||  > > > I suppose I would have to keep an 486 optimized copy of glibc
||
||  somewhere, how?
||
||  > > > It would be nice to have a more or less permanent setup so I can
||
||  upgrade
||
||  > > > packages easily later on.
||  > > >
||  > > > --
||  > > > gentoo-admin@gentoo.org mailing list
||  > > >
||  > > >
||  > > >
||  > > >
||  > > > ___________________________________________________________________
||  > > >___
||  > > >
||  > > > --
||  > > > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
||  > >
||  > > --
||  > > Timo A. Hummel <timo.hummel@gmx.net>
||  > >
||  > >
||  > > --
||  > > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
||  >
||  > --
||  > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
||
||  --
||  gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

-- 
Bart Verwilst
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team
Gent, Belgium

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[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[Arnold deVos]

Nope, as explained earlier in the thread that wouldn't get the benefits of
having gcc optimized for the athlon.  It would not work at all to build
packages for an incompatible arch such as P4.

- Arnold


"Bart Verwilst" <verwilst@gentoo.org> wrote in message
news:200301060304.47202.verwilst@gentoo.org...
> Euhm.. Isn't it much easier to just for example:
>
> mkdir /mnt/my_new_system
> cd /mnt_my_new_system
> tar -xvjpf /path/to/stagex-i486-1.4_rc2.tbz2
> mount -o bind /proc /mnt/my_new_system/proc
> mount -o bind /usr/portage /mnt/my_new_system/usr/portage
> cp /etc/resolv.conf /mnt/my_new_system/etc
> chroot /mnt/my_new_system  /bin/bash
> env-update
> source /etc/profile
> nano -w /etc/make.conf
>
> and so on...
>
> On Monday 06 January 2003 01:02, Arnold deVos wrote:
> ||  I have exactly the same need.  A powerful Athlon building packages for
a
> || an older 486 or pentium box (eg firewall or other appliance).   I have
> || experimented with the following ideas:
> ||
> ||  1 -
> ||
> ||      - create a /my486Image hierarchy
> ||      - setup the /my486Image/etc/make.conf  for cross compiling.
> ||      - export ROOT=/my486image (instead of /)
> ||      - use emerge from within the host (Athlon) system.
> ||
> ||  Unfortunately emerge seems to touch stuff outside of ROOT such as the
> ||  package db.
> ||
> ||  2 -
> ||
> ||      - create a normal chroot environment for the 486
> ||      - mount the Athlon enviroment within this as /hostAlthonImage.
> ||      - Set the PATH to /hostAthlonImage/bin:/hostAthlonImage/usr/bin
etc
> || etc - use emerge (ie /hostAthlonImage/usr/bin/emerge)
> ||
> ||  The problem is the ld.so library path.   Its tricky to get ld.so to
load
> ||  runtime .so's from /hostAthlonImage and not from the chroot's /usr/lib
> ||
> ||  Of these solutions I think (1) is more promising but looks like I need
to
> ||  check the emerge source to find the gotcha's.
> ||
> ||  It would be really useful if the fakeroot emerge facility mentioned by

> ||  drobbins on the gentoo frontpage was available.  (I can't find it.
Anyone
> ||  know how to use this feature?)
> ||
> ||
> ||  - Arnold
> ||
> ||  "John Nilsson" <john@milsson.nu> wrote in message
> ||  news:1041689680.27164.65.camel@newkid.milsson.nu...
> ||
> ||  > If I do it this way I would have to compile an entire bootstrap
> ||  > environment for the 486. Also I wouldn't get the benefits of having
gcc
> ||  > optimized for the athlon.
> ||  > What I would like is to write a simple script to use when upgrading
the
> ||  > server. Change the makefile and compile 486 optimized staticly
linked
> ||  > binaries to packages that are later merged into the server.
> ||  >
> ||  > On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 14:52, Timo A. Hummel wrote:
> ||  > > I don't know if it's the correct list, but I did it as follows to
> ||  > > compile a pentium optimized system:
> ||  > >
> ||  > > I plugged in the 4GB hdd of my Pentium system, created the file
> ||  > > systems, setup a chroot environment and did the whole gentoo
install
> ||  > > from there. worked like a charm, which was pretty good since I
don't
> ||  > > have a keyboard on my Pentium system. It's pretty straightforward,
> ||  > > and shouldn't give any problems. Remember to set the make.conf
> ||  > > correctly.
> ||  > >
> ||  > > cheers,
> ||  > >  Timo
> ||  > >
> ||  > > On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 14:01, John Nilsson wrote:
> ||  > > > which is the correct mailing list for this kind of question?
> ||  > > >
> ||  > > >
___________________________________________________________________
> ||  > > >___
> ||  > > >
> ||  > > > From: John Nilsson <john@milsson.nu>
> ||  > > > To: gentoo-admin@gentoo.org
> ||  > > > Subject: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system
> ||  > > > Date: 04 Jan 2003 12:52:51 +0100
> ||  > > >
> ||  > > > I would like to use my current athlon-xp optimized system to
> ||  > > > compile a base system for a 486. How do I go about it?
> ||  > > > I suppose I would have to keep an 486 optimized copy of glibc
> ||
> ||  somewhere, how?
> ||
> ||  > > > It would be nice to have a more or less permanent setup so I can
> ||
> ||  upgrade
> ||
> ||  > > > packages easily later on.
> ||  > > >
> ||  > > > --
> ||  > > > gentoo-admin@gentoo.org mailing list
> ||  > > >
> ||  > > >
> ||  > > >
> ||  > > >
> ||  > > >
___________________________________________________________________
> ||  > > >___
> ||  > > >
> ||  > > > --
> ||  > > > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> ||  > >
> ||  > > --
> ||  > > Timo A. Hummel <timo.hummel@gmx.net>
> ||  > >
> ||  > >
> ||  > > --
> ||  > > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> ||  >
> ||  > --
> ||  > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> ||
> ||  --
> ||  gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
> --
> Bart Verwilst
> Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team
> Gent, Belgium
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>





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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[George Shapovalov]

So what about:
1. setting optimizations in make.conf and elsewehre for the *final* paltform
2. bootstrap; emerge -b gcc
3. change optimizations to what you would like to have temporarily for gcc
4. emerge gcc 
5. switch optimizations back
6. emerge the rest
7. emerge --usepkg gcc (or just emerge it here skipping 2)
This way you should get your packages built with correct settings and may 
enjoy gcc optimized for athlon while building them (although I am not sure 
you will save much in terms of time this way. I eman versus using i486 
optimized gcc). Just be carefull about having the right version of gcc in the 
end..

George


On Sunday 05 January 2003 21:12, Arnold deVos wrote:
> Nope, as explained earlier in the thread that wouldn't get the benefits of
> having gcc optimized for the athlon.  It would not work at all to build
> packages for an incompatible arch such as P4.
>
> - Arnold


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[gentoo-dev] Re: [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[Kai Großjohann]

"Arnold deVos" <adv@langdale.com.au> writes:

> Unfortunately emerge seems to touch stuff outside of ROOT such as the
> package db.

But there are variables that you can tweak, I think.
-- 
Ambibibentists unite!



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[John Nilsson]

I have found the solution: distcc!

Couldn't be easier, will try it out as soon as I have figured out a way
to make a bootdisk with no floppydrive =)

/John

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Re: [gentoo-dev] [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[Jyrinx]

> If I do it this way I would have to compile an entire bootstrap
> environment for the 486. Also I wouldn't get the benefits of having gcc
> optimized for the athlon.
> What I would like is to write a simple script to use when upgrading the
> server. Change the makefile and compile 486 optimized staticly linked
> binaries to packages that are later merged into the server.

I'm not much of a hacker, and I don't remember the context, but someone
once mentioned using distcc (distributed-computing version of gcc) for
this build-on-beefy-computer-for-older-one scenario; that way, you'd
build the system relatively quickly, and update it just as quickly, if
I'm not mistaken.

(Seems like this is a common task ... is there a FAQ or HOWTO for this
somewhere?)

Jyrinx
jyrinx_list@mindspring.com


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[gentoo-dev] Re: [Fwd: [gentoo-admin] Building a second system]

[Kai Großjohann]

John Nilsson <john@milsson.nu> writes:

> I would like to use my current athlon-xp optimized system to compile a
> base system for a 486. How do I go about it?
> I suppose I would have to keep an 486 optimized copy of glibc somewhere, how?
>
> It would be nice to have a more or less permanent setup so I can upgrade
> packages easily later on.

You could make all kinds of settings that are normally in
/etc/make.conf from the environment.  Then you write a script that
sets the variables and then calls emerge.

You could frob PGKDIR, for instance, then tell the 486 system to
fetch them from there.

I think you will have to change many variables, but if you are lucky,
most of them will default based on just one of them.  Then you tweak
that and off you go.

I'd start reading the source now...
-- 
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