[gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Jyrinx]

Hey, town curmudgeon here :-) There's been another "When on Earth is 1.4
coming?" thread in the forums, but this time I judge it's going in a
productive direction. I pulled some ideas from [your favorite anatomical
source of ideas] for facilitating more communication between devs and
users, and it was suggested I post those ideas here; in the meantime,
though, so many other Tasty Morsels (tm) have come up that I think I'd
do more justice for the subject by just inviting y'all to the party at
this URL:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=22308&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

(In particular, the post in Page 2 from Zebulon is a good summary of 
the propositions.)

Jyrinx
jyrinx_list@mindspring.com




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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Antoine Jacoutot]

"One thing I could suggest...if version numbers are really as unimportant as 
some claim (and I might be inclined to agree), drop them altogether for the 
distribution as a whole, and instead call it "The Gentoo Project" or whatever, 
with no public version numbers...except for the installer, for which a version 
number could be viewed in the package name for download and during the 
install, which is really the only time it would actually be important." 
 
--> I like this idea... 
 
--  
Antoine Jacoutot 
Gentoo Linux 
ajacoutot@lphp.org 
http://www.lphp.org 
 
 
Selon Jyrinx <jyrinx_list@mindspring.com>: 
 
> Hey, town curmudgeon here :-) There's been another "When on Earth is 1.4 
> coming?" thread in the forums, but this time I judge it's going in a 
> productive direction. I pulled some ideas from [your favorite anatomical 
> source of ideas] for facilitating more communication between devs and 
> users, and it was suggested I post those ideas here; in the meantime, 
> though, so many other Tasty Morsels (tm) have come up that I think I'd 
> do more justice for the subject by just inviting y'all to the party at 
> this URL: 
> 
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=22308&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 
>  
> (In particular, the post in Page 2 from Zebulon is a good summary of  
> the propositions.) 
>  
> Jyrinx 
> jyrinx_list@mindspring.com 
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list 
>  

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Spider]

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begin  quote
On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 17:44:10 -0600
Jyrinx <jyrinx_list@mindspring.com> wrote:

> http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=22308&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
> 
> (In particular, the post in Page 2 from Zebulon is a good summary of 
> the propositions.)
> 


Well,  in light of this I'm looking for somone who could be able to host
me on a finger account, seems we have classical infrastructure for this
in place in the unix world, we just need to use the .plan  and other
features, and thats never going to be easy to do :)

Idea, perhaps a bit insane, can we get fingerd running on gentoo.org ?


//Spider

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[foser]

Spider wrote:
> 
> Well,  in light of this I'm looking for somone who could be able to host
> me on a finger account, seems we have classical infrastructure for this
> in place in the unix world, we just need to use the .plan  and other
> features, and thats never going to be easy to do :)
> 

I was thinking, jabber has a blog transport, if we add this to the 
gentoo.org server we could have personal blogs which a dev can _easily_ 
update (example is : jogger.jabber.org ). It's maybe not a great 
tracker/todo list, but it keeps users updated on whats going on in 
general or specificly for a certain (group of ?) developer(s).

I also remember a weekly newsdigest being discussed on core, afaicr all 
response to that was positive. It hasn't seen the daylight yet, but i 
think that's because the devs are usually quite busy doing stuff not 
thinking about/having the time to put such a mailing together. Maybe an 
idea to assign it to the doc team or a (group of) helpful users ?

- foser




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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Bart Verwilst]

Hehe, i'm actually already looking into this blogger stuff for gentoo.
But first i need all the transports to work great, now only the msn transport 
functions :o(. When it's all fine, jabber-server-1.4.2-r2 will be made 
available, and our server (now im.gentoo.org) will hopefully have blogger 
support..

On Saturday 16 November 2002 18:45, foser wrote:
||  Spider wrote:
||  > Well,  in light of this I'm looking for somone who could be able to
||  > host me on a finger account, seems we have classical infrastructure for
||  > this in place in the unix world, we just need to use the .plan  and
||  > other features, and thats never going to be easy to do :)
||
||  I was thinking, jabber has a blog transport, if we add this to the
||  gentoo.org server we could have personal blogs which a dev can _easily_
||  update (example is : jogger.jabber.org ). It's maybe not a great
||  tracker/todo list, but it keeps users updated on whats going on in
||  general or specificly for a certain (group of ?) developer(s).
||
||  I also remember a weekly newsdigest being discussed on core, afaicr all
||  response to that was positive. It hasn't seen the daylight yet, but i
||  think that's because the devs are usually quite busy doing stuff not
||  thinking about/having the time to put such a mailing together. Maybe an
||  idea to assign it to the doc team or a (group of) helpful users ?
||
||  - foser
||
||
||
||
||  --
||  gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

-- 
Bart Verwilst
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team
Gent, Belgium

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Spider]

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begin  quote
On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 18:51:57 +0100
Bart Verwilst <verwilst@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Hehe, i'm actually already looking into this blogger stuff for gentoo.
> But first i need all the transports to work great, now only the msn
> transport functions :o(. When it's all fine, jabber-server-1.4.2-r2
> will be made available, and our server (now im.gentoo.org) will
> hopefully have blogger support..
> 
> On Saturday 16 November 2002 18:45, foser wrote:
> ||  Spider wrote:
> ||  > Well,  in light of this I'm looking for somone who could be able
> |to|  > host me on a finger account, seems we have classical
> |infrastructure for|  > this in place in the unix world, we just need
> |to use the .plan  and|  > other features, and thats never going to be
> |easy to do :)|

Okay, not to be sarcastic or anything, but I'm not looking forwards to
adding yet another program to my list of  "things I need to use to
communicate" , am I too much of a minimalist if I think so?   I'll look
at some code to transpone my ~/.plan to a webpage, should be enough :)


//Spider


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[foser]

Spider wrote:
> Okay, not to be sarcastic or anything, but I'm not looking forwards to
> adding yet another program to my list of  "things I need to use to
> communicate" , am I too much of a minimalist if I think so?

Oh you big minimalistic sarcast, can't we do anything right ? ;)

I use jabber anyway, so its no big deal for me.

I always wanted a weblog, seems to have some status or something. We 
should make it generate RSS files as well and then.. *me dreams on*

- foser


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[oford]

>I also remember a weekly newsdigest being discussed on core, afaicr all
>response to that was positive. It hasn't seen the daylight yet, but i
>think that's because the devs are usually quite busy doing stuff not
>thinking about/having the time to put such a mailing together. Maybe an
>idea to assign it to the doc team or a (group of) helpful users ?
>
>- foser

Helpful user reporting for duty.  If we can get more than one it will be
much easier though.


Owen Ford



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Spider]

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begin  quote
On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 19:34:25 +0100
foser <foser@foser.dyn.warande.net> wrote:

> Spider wrote:
> > Okay, not to be sarcastic or anything, but I'm not looking forwards
> > to adding yet another program to my list of  "things I need to use
> > to communicate" , am I too much of a minimalist if I think so?
> 
> Oh you big minimalistic sarcast, can't we do anything right ? ;)

Nah, We're all uncapable of that.
 
> I use jabber anyway, so its no big deal for me.

I dont, so it is a deal for me.
 
> I always wanted a weblog, seems to have some status or something. We 
> should make it generate RSS files as well and then.. *me dreams on*
*turns the volume down*

ln -s  solved this, my .plan is now exported as a textfile. If i forget
about updating, somone better remind me :)

http://gentoo.org/~spider/plan


//Spider
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Mark Constable]

On Sunday 17 November 2002 11:17, Spider wrote:
> ...
> ln -s  solved this, my .plan is now exported as a textfile. If i forget
> about updating, somone better remind me :)
>
> http://gentoo.org/~spider/plan

How about linking to a file called plan.txt then the rest
of us will get the right mime-type in our browsers ?

--markc


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Spider]

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begin  quote
On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:02:27 +1000
Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:

> > http://gentoo.org/~spider/plan
> 
> How about linking to a file called plan.txt then the rest
> of us will get the right mime-type in our browsers ?
> 
symlink added. thanks for the comment 

//Spider

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RE: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Sean P. Kane]

I got:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /~spider/plan on this server.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

Apache/1.3.26 Server at www.gentoo.org Port 80

When clicking on the link below and I was actually redirected to:

http://cvs.gentoo.org/~spider/plan


Sean




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spider [mailto:spider@gentoo.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 04:53
> To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication
> 
> 
> begin  quote
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:02:27 +1000
> Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:
> 
> > > http://gentoo.org/~spider/plan
> > 
> > How about linking to a file called plan.txt then the rest
> > of us will get the right mime-type in our browsers ?
> > 
> symlink added. thanks for the comment 
> 
> //Spider
> 
> --
> begin  .signature
> This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your 
> .signature! See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information. end
> 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Ahmed Bouagja]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

try replacing plan with plan.txt

Le Lundi 18 Novembre 2002 17:25, Sean P. Kane a écrit :
> I got:
> 
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access /~spider/plan on this server.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> 
> Apache/1.3.26 Server at www.gentoo.org Port 80
> 
> When clicking on the link below and I was actually redirected to:
> 
> http://cvs.gentoo.org/~spider/plan
> 
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Spider [mailto:spider@gentoo.org] 
> > Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 04:53
> > To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> > Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication
> > 
> > 
> > begin  quote
> > On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:02:27 +1000
> > Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > > http://gentoo.org/~spider/plan
> > > 
> > > How about linking to a file called plan.txt then the rest
> > > of us will get the right mime-type in our browsers ?
> > > 
> > symlink added. thanks for the comment 
> > 
> > //Spider
> > 
> > --
> > begin  .signature
> > This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your 
> > .signature! See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information. end
> > 
> 
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> 


- -- 
Ahmed
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Fred Van Andel]

oford <oford@ev1.net> wrote:
(11/16/2002 13:09)

>
>
>>I also remember a weekly newsdigest being discussed on core, afaicr all
>>response to that was positive. It hasn't seen the daylight yet, but i
>>think that's because the devs are usually quite busy doing stuff not
>>thinking about/having the time to put such a mailing together. Maybe an
>>idea to assign it to the doc team or a (group of) helpful users ?
>>
>>- foser
>
>Helpful user reporting for duty.  If we can get more than one it will be
>much easier though.
>
>
>Owen Ford

You have more than one now. Shall we go for more that two?

Fred Van Andel

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RE: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Christian Skarby]

A user on this list requested that the file should have .txt as extention.

This works for me ;)
http://cvs.gentoo.org/~spider/plan.txt

Christian

> I got:
>
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access /~spider/plan on this server.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>
> Apache/1.3.26 Server at www.gentoo.org Port 80
>
> When clicking on the link below and I was actually redirected to:
>
> http://cvs.gentoo.org/~spider/plan
>
>
> Sean
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Spider [mailto:spider@gentoo.org]
>> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 04:53
>> To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
>> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication
>>
>>
>> begin  quote
>> On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:02:27 +1000
>> Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:
>>
>> > > http://gentoo.org/~spider/plan
>> >
>> > How about linking to a file called plan.txt then the rest
>> > of us will get the right mime-type in our browsers ?
>> >
>> symlink added. thanks for the comment
>>
>> //Spider
>>
>> --
>> begin  .signature
>> This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your
>> .signature! See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information. end
>>
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list




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RE: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Sean P. Kane]

And now it seems it is really at:

finger spider@gentoo-undernet.org

:-)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christian Skarby [mailto:christian@skarby.no] 
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:33
> To: Sean P. Kane
> Cc: spider@gentoo.org; gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> Subject: RE: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication
> 
> 
> A user on this list requested that the file should have .txt 
> as extention.
> 
> This works for me ;)
> http://cvs.gentoo.org/~spider/plan.txt
> 
> Christian
> 
> > I got:
> >
> > Forbidden
> > You don't have permission to access /~spider/plan on this server.
> >
> >
> > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > --------
> >
> > Apache/1.3.26 Server at www.gentoo.org Port 80
> >
> > When clicking on the link below and I was actually redirected to:
> >
> > http://cvs.gentoo.org/~spider/plan
> >
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Spider [mailto:spider@gentoo.org]
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 04:53
> >> To: gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> >> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication
> >>
> >>
> >> begin  quote
> >> On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 17:02:27 +1000
> >> Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > > http://gentoo.org/~spider/plan
> >> >
> >> > How about linking to a file called plan.txt then the rest of us 
> >> > will get the right mime-type in our browsers ?
> >> >
> >> symlink added. thanks for the comment
> >>
> >> //Spider
> >>
> >> --
> >> begin  .signature
> >> This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your 
> .signature! See 
> >> Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information. end
> >>
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ideas for user-developer communication

[Spider]

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begin  quote
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:06:01 -0800
"Sean P. Kane" <spkane@genomatica.com> wrote:

> And now it seems it is really at:
> 
> finger spider@gentoo-undernet.org
> 
> :-)
> 

Yep, The kind support from tyvek set me up with a computer with 
fingerd,  and that feels like a nice way to go when it comes to keeping
journal  and plan :)

//Spider



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This is a .signature virus! Please copy me into your .signature!
See Microsoft KB Article Q265230 for more information.
end

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[gentoo-dev] Gentoo Newsletter (Was: Ideas for user-developer communication)

[Dan Armak]

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Hash: SHA1

Hello everyone,

Many people have proposed a 'Gentoo Newsletter', a webpage or email periodical
that will allow users to keep current with Gentoo matters and to realize
better what the developers are actually doing. People have been complaining
that Gentoo isn't transparent and/or user-centric enough, that's a bad sign.

The idea had been raised on gento-core at least once before and was roundly
approved by everyone, but noone actually took up the glove.

I'll be happy to write the kde and qt-related news items. foser has agreed to
do the Gnome stuff, and mcummings will be the perl guy. This is just the
result of a fee questions asked on irc, so I expect a lot more people to join
this effort :-) Two users have already volunteered to help farther back in
this thread.

Ideally any developer (or user!) should write the editor(s) a quick note
whenever he does something big and interesting in Gentoo. There might also be
some coverage of the Gentoo community itself, a la the kernel cousins - such
as summaries of important mailing list discussions. (Well, that's my own
private idea, so ppl may disagree.)

The position of chief editor & coordinator is still open :-)

On Monday 18 November 2002 20:06, Fred Van Andel wrote:
> oford <oford@ev1.net> wrote:
> (11/16/2002 13:09)
>
> >>I also remember a weekly newsdigest being discussed on core, afaicr all
> >>response to that was positive. It hasn't seen the daylight yet, but i
> >>think that's because the devs are usually quite busy doing stuff not
> >>thinking about/having the time to put such a mailing together. Maybe an
> >>idea to assign it to the doc team or a (group of) helpful users ?
> >>
> >>- foser
> >
> >Helpful user reporting for duty.  If we can get more than one it will be
> >much easier though.
> >
> >
> >Owen Ford
>
> You have more than one now. Shall we go for more that two?
>
> Fred Van Andel
>
> --
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list

- --
Dan Armak
Gentoo Linux developer (KDE)
Matan, Israel
Public GPG key: http://www.gentoo.org/~danarmak/danarmak-gpg-public.key
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Newsletter (Was: Ideas for user-developer communication)

[Dafydd Walters]

> Ideally any developer (or user!) should write the editor(s) a quick note
> whenever he does something big and interesting in Gentoo. There might also
be
> some coverage of the Gentoo community itself, a la the kernel cousins -
such
> as summaries of important mailing list discussions. (Well, that's my own
> private idea, so ppl may disagree.)

I think harvesting the mailing lists for important discussions and
announcements is a good idea:  Unfortunately, you can't always rely on
people being proactive in contacting editors with "big and interesting"
items.



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