[gentoo-dev] system-logger

[gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Sebastian Werner]

Hey,

you write in the documentation that i can choose my system-logger:
sylogd, syslog-ng or metalob. Which is the best, the fastest, the
easiest. What ever. Have anybody test them and could give me an intro. 

Thanks,

Sebastian Werner

Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Jerry A!]

On Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 01:55:10PM +0100, Sebastian Werner wrote:
: Hey,
:
: you write in the documentation that i can choose my system-logger:
: sylogd, syslog-ng or metalob. Which is the best, the fastest, the
: easiest. What ever. Have anybody test them and could give me an intro.

They are both excellent loggers.  The syntax for metalog is somewhat
simplier.  I recommend perusing the homepages for both programs and see
which one fits your needs.

        --Jerry

Open-Source software isn't a matter of life or death...
...It's much more important than that!

Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Mikael Hallendal]

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sön 2001-12-02 klockan 18.31 skrev Jerry A!:
> On Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 01:55:10PM +0100, Sebastian Werner wrote:
> : Hey,
> :
> : you write in the documentation that i can choose my system-logger:
> : sylogd, syslog-ng or metalob. Which is the best, the fastest, the
> : easiest. What ever. Have anybody test them and could give me an intro.
> 
> They are both excellent loggers.  The syntax for metalog is somewhat
> simplier.  I recommend perusing the homepages for both programs and see
> which one fits your needs.

IMHO we should have a "default" one or at least one that we recommend.
Most people doesn't really care as long as it just works, and by making
people make the descission while installing only confuses lots of
people.

So, we should do either of two schemes:

1) Install a default one and make a note in the documents that you can 
   change it.

2) Don't install one but say 'then merge a system logger, preferable 
   XXX'.

Regards,
  Mikael Hallendal
 
-- 

Mikael Hallendal
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team Leader
CodeFactory AB, Stockholm, Sweden


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Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Vitaly Kushneriuk]

I'm not sure we want Gentoo became a "do this and that and you'll get
linux running" distro for dummies.
SA using Gentoo SUPPOSED to know what is syslog and which one he likes.
You realy should do some web research if you don't know which one to
use. It will only help you to better understand your system.
That's the main idea of installing Gentoo : to know your system and have
only stuff you want. So basic installation should install only 
"THE MUST" components, leaving the rest to SA to decide.


     Vitaly.
 
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 14:17, Mikael Hallendal wrote:
> sön 2001-12-02 klockan 18.31 skrev Jerry A!:
> > On Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 01:55:10PM +0100, Sebastian Werner wrote:
> > : Hey,
> > :
> > : you write in the documentation that i can choose my system-logger:
> > : sylogd, syslog-ng or metalob. Which is the best, the fastest, the
> > : easiest. What ever. Have anybody test them and could give me an intro.
> > 
> > They are both excellent loggers.  The syntax for metalog is somewhat
> > simplier.  I recommend perusing the homepages for both programs and see
> > which one fits your needs.
> 
> IMHO we should have a "default" one or at least one that we recommend.
> Most people doesn't really care as long as it just works, and by making
> people make the descission while installing only confuses lots of
> people.
> 
> So, we should do either of two schemes:
> 
> 1) Install a default one and make a note in the documents that you can 
>    change it.
> 
> 2) Don't install one but say 'then merge a system logger, preferable 
>    XXX'.
> 
> Regards,
>   Mikael Hallendal
>  
> -- 
> 
> Mikael Hallendal
> Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team Leader
> CodeFactory AB, Stockholm, Sweden
> 

Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Joshua Pierre]

On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:05:57PM +0200 or thereabouts, Vitaly Kushneriuk wrote:
> > So, we should do either of two schemes:
> > 
> > 1) Install a default one and make a note in the documents that you can 
> >    change it.

By far I agree to this idea. It installs one no matter what and people can change it at thei own will. We would need to look into which one suits the job quite extensively to make sure the right decision is made.


> > 2) Don't install one but say 'then merge a system logger, preferable 
> >    XXX'.

This is a good idea. Volunteering to investigate and write the documentation ? :-)

Cheers,

-- 
Joshua Pierre
Developer & Release Technician
Themes.Org -- Open Source Interface Enhancement

Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Jerry A!]

On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:05:57PM +0200, Vitaly Kushneriuk wrote:
: I'm not sure we want Gentoo became a "do this and that and you'll get
: linux running" distro for dummies.
: SA using Gentoo SUPPOSED to know what is syslog and which one he likes.
: You realy should do some web research if you don't know which one to
: use. It will only help you to better understand your system.
: That's the main idea of installing Gentoo : to know your system and have
: only stuff you want. So basic installation should install only
: "THE MUST" components, leaving the rest to SA to decide.

The problem with this argument is that "THE MUST" components will vary
from person to person.

What we really need here is some direction and consistency.  Dan, what
are your thoughts?

        --Jerry

Open-Source software isn't a matter of life or death...
...It's much more important than that!

Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Daniel Robbins]

On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:05:57PM +0200, Vitaly Kushneriuk wrote:

> I'm not sure we want Gentoo became a "do this and that and you'll get linux
> running" distro for dummies.  SA using Gentoo SUPPOSED to know what is syslog
> and which one he likes.  You realy should do some web research if you don't
> know which one to use. It will only help you to better understand your
> system.  That's the main idea of installing Gentoo : to know your system and
> have only stuff you want. So basic installation should install only "THE
> MUST" components, leaving the rest to SA to decide.

Sorry, as the creator of Gentoo Linux, I disagree with you.  The fact is that
some people aren't concerned with the system logger and want *us* to make an
educated choice for them.  So this is an area that we will probably improve in
the future, and we will soon (like in 2 days) have all the features in our
initscripts to support it.

Best Regards,

-- 
Daniel Robbins                                  <drobbins@gentoo.org>
Chief Architect/President                       http://www.gentoo.org 
Gentoo Technologies, Inc.

Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Damon M. Conway]

 Jerry A! wrote:
>On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:05:57PM +0200, Vitaly Kushneriuk wrote:
>: I'm not sure we want Gentoo became a "do this and that and you'll get
>: linux running" distro for dummies.
>: SA using Gentoo SUPPOSED to know what is syslog and which one he likes.
>: You realy should do some web research if you don't know which one to
>: use. It will only help you to better understand your system.
>: That's the main idea of installing Gentoo : to know your system and hav
>e
>: only stuff you want. So basic installation should install only
>: "THE MUST" components, leaving the rest to SA to decide.
>
>The problem with this argument is that "THE MUST" components will vary
>from person to person.

Right, we should define a whole base system that is easily modifiable.  I
come from the BSD world where they give you a whole system with sane
defaults that can be changed easily.  It's nice to not have to put every
system you build together.  I know I can create my own gentoo cd, but it is
nice to just install a system and go when you need to.  Especially, when
trying out something new on a throwaway temp system.

>What we really need here is some direction and consistency.  Dan, what
>are your thoughts?

I agree with that.  Consistency is the key to any good system.  One of the
things I liked best about FreeBSD was that it behaved exactly how I
expected it because it was consistently implemented according to a single
definition/direction.

My $0.02,
kabau

--
"UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that
 would also stop you from doing clever things."  --Doug Gwyn

Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Daniel Robbins]

On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 01:17:48PM +0100, Mikael Hallendal wrote:
> IMHO we should have a "default" one or at least one that we recommend.
> Most people doesn't really care as long as it just works, and by making
> people make the descission while installing only confuses lots of
> people.
> 
> So, we should do either of two schemes:
> 
> 1) Install a default one and make a note in the documents that you can 
>    change it.

We'll probably take this approach.  Unfortunately, I haven't had time
to evaluate them, so I'm hoping to get feedback on metalog and syslog-ng
from users.

Best Regards,

-- 
Daniel Robbins                                  <drobbins@gentoo.org>
Chief Architect/President                       http://www.gentoo.org 
Gentoo Technologies, Inc.

Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 18:37, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 01:17:48PM +0100, Mikael Hallendal wrote:
> > IMHO we should have a "default" one or at least one that we recommend.
> > Most people doesn't really care as long as it just works, and by making
> > people make the descission while installing only confuses lots of
> > people.
> > 
> > So, we should do either of two schemes:
> > 
> > 1) Install a default one and make a note in the documents that you can 
> >    change it.
> 
> We'll probably take this approach.  Unfortunately, I haven't had time
> to evaluate them, so I'm hoping to get feedback on metalog and syslog-ng
> from users.
> 

Personally I like sysklogd, as it is clean and easy to
configure (not overly complex) and should fullfill the
needs of most users.  It is also fairly configured out of
the box, and comes with a simlple logrotate script.
Another point is that ours is configured to limit the
logging to console, so no 'unasked for' logs while busy
on irc, etc.

-- 

Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa


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Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Geert Bevin]

> > We'll probably take this approach.  Unfortunately, I haven't had time
> > to evaluate them, so I'm hoping to get feedback on metalog and syslog-ng
> > from users.

I've installed metalog as suggested in the installation guide and I am
quite happy with it. The configuration is one of the most simpliest I've
ever seen. Very powerful though, able to regexp match of log lines,
prepend identifiers, output log messages through mail, etc etc

-- 
Geert Bevin
the Leaf sprl/bvba
"Use what you need"           Pierre Theunisstraat 1/47
http://www.theleaf.be         1030 Brussels
gbevin@theleaf.be             Tel & Fax +32 2 241 19 98

Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Martin Schlemmer]

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On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 20:36, Martin Schlemmer wrote:
> On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 18:37, Daniel Robbins wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 01:17:48PM +0100, Mikael Hallendal wrote:
> > > IMHO we should have a "default" one or at least one that we recommend.
> > > Most people doesn't really care as long as it just works, and by making
> > > people make the descission while installing only confuses lots of
> > > people.
> > > 
> > > So, we should do either of two schemes:
> > > 
> > > 1) Install a default one and make a note in the documents that you can 
> > >    change it.
> > 
> > We'll probably take this approach.  Unfortunately, I haven't had time
> > to evaluate them, so I'm hoping to get feedback on metalog and syslog-ng
> > from users.
> > 
> 
> Personally I like sysklogd, as it is clean and easy to
> configure (not overly complex) and should fullfill the
> needs of most users.  It is also fairly configured out of
> the box, and comes with a simlple logrotate script.
> Another point is that ours is configured to limit the
> logging to console, so no 'unasked for' logs while busy
> on irc, etc.

Forgot to add: since it is used by most distro as default
(as far as I know), it should be familiar to most.


-- 

Martin Schlemmer
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team Developer
Cape Town, South Africa


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Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Mikael Hallendal]

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mån 2001-12-03 klockan 14.52 skrev Joshua Pierre:

> > > 2) Don't install one but say 'then merge a system logger, preferable 
> > >    XXX'.
> 
> This is a good idea. Volunteering to investigate and write the documentation ? :-)

You do?!, that great, go ahead :)

Regards,
  Mikael Hallendal
 
-- 

Mikael Hallendal
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team Leader
CodeFactory AB, Stockholm, Sweden


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Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Mikael Hallendal]

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mån 2001-12-03 klockan 14.05 skrev Vitaly Kushneriuk:
> I'm not sure we want Gentoo became a "do this and that and you'll get
> linux running" distro for dummies.
> SA using Gentoo SUPPOSED to know what is syslog and which one he likes.
> You realy should do some web research if you don't know which one to
> use. It will only help you to better understand your system.
> That's the main idea of installing Gentoo : to know your system and have
> only stuff you want. So basic installation should install only 
> "THE MUST" components, leaving the rest to SA to decide.

What are you basing this "we don't"?
I think we should make Gentoo Linux a distribution for everyone. In the
beginning it will surely be for advanced users since we haven't got the
resources to fix all the things that non-advanced users will need (as a
more automatic, for those that wants it, installation process).

And as someone mentioned, not all persons agree on what is "THE MUST"
components. As a software developer I use Gentoo Linux because it's very
good for having your own versions of various libs without breaking the
package system. I'm very not-interested in which system logger I use as
long as it works. If I were a system administrator I would be more
insterested in the system logger.

Regards,
  Mikael Hallendal

-- 

Mikael Hallendal
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team Leader
CodeFactory AB, Stockholm, Sweden


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Re: [gentoo-dev] system-logger

[Mikael Hallendal]

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mån 2001-12-03 klockan 20.09 skrev Martin Schlemmer:

> > Personally I like sysklogd, as it is clean and easy to
> > configure (not overly complex) and should fullfill the
> > needs of most users.  It is also fairly configured out of
> > the box, and comes with a simlple logrotate script.
> > Another point is that ours is configured to limit the
> > logging to console, so no 'unasked for' logs while busy
> > on irc, etc.
> 
> Forgot to add: since it is used by most distro as default
> (as far as I know), it should be familiar to most.

I Agree with gbevin here, metalog is nice and easy to use. 

I don't really agree with using sysklogd because it's the default in
other distributions. Those that will run the default (without caring)
have probably not spent too much time playing around with sysklogd in
there other distributions either.

And as said, this is the default (and imho, metalog configuration is
easier than sysklogd).

Regards,
  Mikael Hallendal
 
-- 

Mikael Hallendal
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team Leader
CodeFactory AB, Stockholm, Sweden


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