From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F06F7139085 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:37:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 36F6A21C0C9; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:36:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF18A21C0A3 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:36:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-98-218-46-55.hsd1.md.comcast.net [98.218.46.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mjo) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0540E340DC7 for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 15:36:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Guidelines for IUSE defaults To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <3a32da5b-e7f8-c21d-a990-ffbedb2c958b@gentoo.org> From: Michael Orlitzky Message-ID: <0b9e6324-9d41-e35f-d077-1496e0bac05d@gentoo.org> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 10:36:51 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3a32da5b-e7f8-c21d-a990-ffbedb2c958b@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 04e78a1d-6bae-4f1f-a5da-6602373c3100 X-Archives-Hash: 7156f2cb08338b93dfeccbcf1d60cd97 On 02/02/2017 10:06 AM, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote: > On 02/02/2017 03:11 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: >> Can we discourage IUSE defaults except for #1 and #2? I'm equally guilty >> of #3 and #4, but I now regret them. I would also like to see >> explanations in metadata.xml of why +flags are on by default. > > This presumes that the goal is minimal system in all cases, rather than > a good user experience for inter alia a desktop system or a > server-system. If a user requires a minimal system for whatever reason > (s)he is likely more prepared to understand the choices than the average > user. > I'm not saying that we should have a minimal experience out-of-the-box, only that the base profile should result in an effectively-minimal set of USE flags. Adding IUSE defaults is essentially adding defaults to the base profile. Why does dev-java/icedtea try to pull in GTK (and thus X) on a headless server? That stuff belongs in a desktop profile, not in the base one. I don't think minimal should be our default, but it should be *possible*. It practically isn't so long as people mix uses #1, #3, and #4. I guess I would also be happy if we outlawed use #1 so that USE="-*" would be supported. In any case, we should document how to use them. Having them mean four different things causes confusion.