[gentoo-dev] KDEDIR

[gentoo-dev] KDEDIR

[Charles Kerr]

Although I understand (I think) why the use of KDEDIR=/usr, may I offer it 
makes it rather hard for those of use who want/need to run multiple versions 
of KDE.

May I offer that the /usr/kde/2    and /usr/kde/3  that you all ready have 
the kdelibraries be the actual kdedir as well?   One could then make a base 
symlink  to the active on (as well as qt libraries). that way the ld.conf.so 
and path's dont have to be modified everytime, just the link.

The way it is at the moment, with all kde apps going into /usr/bin, trynig to 
run two kdes (and switching back and forth) is rather difficult.


Charles

Re: [gentoo-dev] KDEDIR

[Dan Armak]

On Wednesday 02 January 2002 15:42, you wrote:
> Although I understand (I think) why the use of KDEDIR=/usr, may I offer it
> makes it rather hard for those of use who want/need to run multiple
> versions of KDE.
>
> May I offer that the /usr/kde/2    and /usr/kde/3  that you all ready have
> the kdelibraries be the actual kdedir as well?
Well, this suggestion was raised before but we decded against it. For one 
thing, you'd still have to juggle paths the way you do now. In any case it 
was decided that providing support for one version of any app (and multiple 
kdes) is enough.

>   One could then make a base
> symlink  to the active on (as well as qt libraries). that way the
> ld.conf.so and path's dont have to be modified everytime, just the link.
Are they being modified now? Not as far as I know, just being set in 
/etc/env.d. The only "dynamic" modification going on is in startkde (PATH) 
and I may get rid of that as well.

The KDEDIR etc. settings and configuration have just come out of a prolonged 
state of flux; things are still settling down.
I am currently running a combined KDE2/3 for the first time and am working out 
the best way to implement this in ebuilds. I should be able to give you a 
satisfying answer in a couple of days from now, when I have all the quirks 
worked out.

>
> The way it is at the moment, with all kde apps going into /usr/bin, trynig
> to run two kdes (and switching back and forth) is rather difficult.
Well, one thing I can tell you right now is this: the generic Gentoo KDE setup 
does not, and will not, include support for mutiple KDEs. If you want to run 
multiple KDEs yourself, expect the Portage-installed KDE to make trouble. For 
one thing, since it lives in /usr, it has an unpleasant tendency to get into 
the beginning of your PATH, before any other KDE.

I will try to provide a more satisfcatory solution, but the Gentoo KDE will 
still come first in my priorities. So if you want to have multiple KDEs on a 
permanent basis (what for? testing?), you might consider not installing a KDE 
from portage at all. That way all you KDEs would be on an equal footing, but 
you'd lose all the nice things we put into the KDE ebuilds.

-- 

Dan Armak
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team
Matan, Israel

Re: [gentoo-dev] KDEDIR

[Charles Kerr]

On Wednesday 02 January 2002 09:00 am, you wrote:

> Well, this suggestion was raised before but we decded against it. For one
> thing, you'd still have to juggle paths the way you do now. In any case it
> was decided that providing support for one version of any app (and multiple
> kdes) is enough.

Not sure I understand the juggling of paths, a symlink change of kde and qt 
would suffice. 



> Are they being modified now? Not as far as I know, just being set in
> /etc/env.d. The only "dynamic" modification going on is in startkde (PATH)
> and I may get rid of that as well.

No, they are not. Was speculating past if multiple KDE's where supported.



> Well, one thing I can tell you right now is this: the generic Gentoo KDE
> setup does not, and will not, include support for mutiple KDEs. If you want
> to run multiple KDEs yourself, expect the Portage-installed KDE to make
> trouble. For one thing, since it lives in /usr, it has an unpleasant
> tendency to get into the beginning of your PATH, before any other KDE.

Yea, I understood the /usr issue of being first in the PATH *smile*. that is 
why the question!


>
> I will try to provide a more satisfcatory solution, but the Gentoo KDE will
> still come first in my priorities. So if you want to have multiple KDEs on
> a permanent basis (what for? testing?), you might consider not installing a
> KDE from portage at all. That way all you KDEs would be on an equal
> footing, but you'd lose all the nice things we put into the KDE ebuilds.

Main reason I want multiple,is for KDE development.  If you have a KDE app, 
you need to start migrating it to the next KDE.  However,  one must still 
maintain it on the "old" kde for some time.  Would have thought that would 
have been a fairly common situation. Perhaps it isn't.  Understand  that 
Gentoo KDE would be your priority.  And if it is set, wasnt' my intent to 
change just for me (again, I would have thought any who do KDE app 
development would need something like that) 
Yea, I was figuring it would probably come down to removing the Gentoo KDE 
and just doing it manually.  Can you give an example of what "nice thing" is 
put into the KDE ebuilds (always want to know what I am losing *smile*)?

Anyway, appreciate the answer!

Re: [gentoo-dev] KDEDIR

[Nathaniel Grady]

Now that eclasses are used for kde would it be possible just to set a
make.conf flag that set if kde was installed to /usr or
/usr/kde/version#? From my quick glance, kde.eclass just needs to be
adjusted so the --prefix=$where_to_put_kde, with $where_to_put_kde
either being /usr or /usr/kde/version# based on the version number of
the kde being merged?

--Nate Grady

On Wed, 2002-01-02 at 09:19, Charles Kerr wrote:
> Main reason I want multiple,is for KDE development.  If you have a KDE app, 
> you need to start migrating it to the next KDE.  However,  one must still 
> maintain it on the "old" kde for some time.  Would have thought that would 
> have been a fairly common situation. Perhaps it isn't.  Understand  that 
> Gentoo KDE would be your priority.  And if it is set, wasnt' my intent to 
> change just for me (again, I would have thought any who do KDE app 
> development would need something like that) 
> Yea, I was figuring it would probably come down to removing the Gentoo KDE 
> and just doing it manually.  Can you give an example of what "nice thing" is 
> put into the KDE ebuilds (always want to know what I am losing *smile*)?
> 
> Anyway, appreciate the answer!
> _______________________________________________
> gentoo-dev mailing list
> gentoo-dev@gentoo.org
> http://lists.gentoo.org/mailman/listinfo/gentoo-dev

Re: [gentoo-dev] KDEDIR

[Charles Kerr]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!

Although  I certainly did not want  to disrupt or cause any decisions to be 
revisited.  I had just finished removing the emerge kde and was setting up a 
kde envrionment outside emerge. So hope it wasn't taken as whining, just 
asking!   Anyway, cant wait to try out the "new" emerge kde when ready!.


Charles


On Wednesday 02 January 2002 03:25 pm, you wrote:
> On Wednesday 02 January 2002 22:11, you wrote:
> > The reason for not doing this is that putting kde in /usr (and thus only
> > having 1 kde) is an intentional decision, not a consequence of anything
> > else. And the decision has been made in the highest levels (hallski,
> > drobbins) and not just by me, so it can't be reversed without their
> > approval.
>
> Some better news:
>
> Hallski, drobbins and me just had a short discussion on this in #gentoo and
> agreed that we should support this.
>
> This will probably be changed considerably, but here's the orig.
> suggestion: 2 vars to set in e.g. make.conf for kde2, kde3 respectively.
> Every kde apps installs into the location set by its var (via eclasses).
> Change the vars and you get a new location.
>
> We'll have to come up with a scheme to add all the right locations to PATH,
> LDPATH and it likely won't be fully automated - you'll want to decide on
> the order of your paths yourself anyway, unless you have only 1 or 2
> locations.
>
> Again, this will change, but thei mportant news is that some support will
> be there :-) It'll may well take a week or so though, so don't hold your
> breath.

Re: [gentoo-dev] KDEDIR

[Dan Armak]

On Wednesday 02 January 2002 16:21, you wrote:
> Now that eclasses are used for kde would it be possible just to set a
> make.conf flag that set if kde was installed to /usr or
> /usr/kde/version#? From my quick glance, kde.eclass just needs to be
> adjusted so the --prefix=$where_to_put_kde, with $where_to_put_kde
> either being /usr or /usr/kde/version# based on the version number of
> the kde being merged?
This is 99% correct. A few litle adaptations might be needed for the general 
case but these are negligible. 

The reason for not doing this is that putting kde in /usr (and thus only 
having 1 kde) is an intentional decision, not a consequence of anything else. 
And the decision has been made in the highest levels (hallski, drobbins) and 
not just by me, so it can't be reversed without their approval. Also all 
these arguments were already raised against the decision, and it held.

But on the other hand we certainly mustn't drift away from our users and their 
needs, and if they start bypassing Portage to have multiple KDEs on their 
own, it's a problem. On the other hand, is the opinion that having KDEs 
outside of /usr is wrong, and we won't do a wrong thing even if our users 
want to. But here we have an opportunity of at least standardizing our users' 
ways of bypassnig Portage. Which is ugly and unpleasant, but better than 
nothing.

So for now I'll follow orders and won't work on enabling our eclasses to do 
things we don't like. Only I'm afraid it simply means that somebody else will 
do it.

-- 
Dan Armak
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team
Matan, Israel

Re: [gentoo-dev] KDEDIR

[Dan Armak]

On Wednesday 02 January 2002 22:11, you wrote:
> The reason for not doing this is that putting kde in /usr (and thus only
> having 1 kde) is an intentional decision, not a consequence of anything
> else. And the decision has been made in the highest levels (hallski,
> drobbins) and not just by me, so it can't be reversed without their
> approval. 
Some better news:

Hallski, drobbins and me just had a short discussion on this in #gentoo and 
agreed that we should support this. 

This will probably be changed considerably, but here's the orig. suggestion:
2 vars to set in e.g. make.conf for kde2, kde3 respectively.
Every kde apps installs into the location set by its var (via eclasses). 
Change the vars and you get a new location.

We'll have to come up with a scheme to add all the right locations to PATH, 
LDPATH and it likely won't be fully automated - you'll want to decide on the 
order of your paths yourself anyway, unless you have only 1 or 2 locations.

Again, this will change, but thei mportant news is that some support will be 
there :-) It'll may well take a week or so though, so don't hold your breath.

-- 
Dan Armak
Gentoo Linux Developer, Desktop Team
Matan, Israel