From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3371413832E for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2016 16:51:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EEBDB21C0CC; Sun, 7 Aug 2016 16:51:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omr-a011e.mx.aol.com (omr-a011e.mx.aol.com [204.29.186.59]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01424E0B24 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2016 16:51:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mtaout-aaf01.mx.aol.com (mtaout-aaf01.mx.aol.com [172.26.127.97]) by omr-a011e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 908A83800099 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2016 12:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.52] (0x5b3139322e3136382e312e35325d [71.122.242.106]) by mtaout-aaf01.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 4E07F38000085; Sun, 7 Aug 2016 12:51:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Packages up for grabs To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <20160806211255.GI12988@foo.stuge.se> <49994385-FEB7-4951-B324-ED1BC66899D4@gentoo.org> <20160807073824.GA1030@daphne> <20160808013213.15ca7982@katipo2.lan> <6494e3db-fb71-9896-2370-4885410a5f35@verizon.net> <20160807172130.6551e941@snowblower> From: james Message-ID: <052c2bbf-c7e9-4cb6-4799-4aad489adbdb@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 12:59:34 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160807172130.6551e941@snowblower> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7f6157a767084d59 X-AOL-IP: 71.122.242.106 X-Archives-Salt: d86228c7-d594-47cf-9c41-bcefc79aac9f X-Archives-Hash: f3f683202d20e2a665d0401f179af8f1 On 08/07/2016 11:21 AM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 12:24:37 -0500 > james wrote: >>>> Let them use java* codes, as that is what all the universities are >>>> teaching and promoting. I agree >>>> with gentoo proper on severely restricting java*, on >>>> gentoo-proper, but that sort of thing is killing gentoo and just >>>> appears to the open world as a filter mechanism to keep out and go >>>> elsewhere, snoot. There are just too many exciting and useful >>>> codes out there running java. >>> >>> "All" ? Some. And the dominance and focus on Java is itself telling >>> of the quality and type of the education provider. >>> >>> Some education providers may not touch Java at all, and focus >>> predominantly on C. >> >> Sure, I agree here, but, statistically these "hi level" languages are >> being taught, in lieu of C; and that is really sad. I'm sure there >> are exceptions, would you have a few CS departments that push C over >> java and the other, newer languages? (I'm curios). > > You all appear to be missing the point of education. If you are learning > technologies, your skills will be obsolete in five years. If you are > learning general principles and problem solving, the particular > language being used is much less important. > I agree, but if you do not know of C and or Assembler, how can you comprehend what goes on in firmware or with an embedded system? The bootstapped state machine, teach grasshoppers to appreciate an RTOS. Likewise, the linux kernel become a great thing of beauty, when one has spend some time with an Rtos. If you don not know of those things, how can these kids comprehend that illicit codes are in hardware, or the lower layers of the stack and thus fuzzing the code they wrote is pointless. I guess you could write firmware in Go, but that would be quite a stretch to the EE that work with the CE that builds the basis of a product or a system. They lack fundamental understanding of the fundamentals because these kids are being moved further and further away from how hardware and low level codes actually work. They are clueless, imho, and that is a fundamental fault-line in their education, imho. I do not know of a single hacker on the gentoo embedded channel that struggles to run a basic gentoo server, but the opposite is quite a common occurrence, sysadms that know little of low level issues, imho. That's my point; and gentoo is possible part of the solution to change this, imho. hth, James