From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51F0A1396D0 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:12:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 232241FC05B; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:12:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C04151FC009 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:12:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [46.246.40.84] (anon-40-84.vpn.ipredator.se [46.246.40.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: zlg) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC3C9341711 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 20:12:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Revisions for USE flag changes To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org References: <53c9d820-5852-730a-3728-793855c98a1a@gentoo.org> <6912b3d6-4d66-ef99-223c-5892549b571e@gentoo.org> <4bf31717-7dbe-78ec-30e1-78f12f63174e@gentoo.org> <9a4c73d7-34b7-d84e-b9f6-ff5abcc6ec31@gentoo.org> From: Daniel Campbell Message-ID: <04bdd0e8-0d5d-dcc1-11c3-8f861f1e6ab3@gentoo.org> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 13:12:36 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="wOfpMT8dUjHc25SxoXRco7pXjeiHGC2fK" X-Archives-Salt: 73c119ad-ae52-4eea-b642-92e5e32626c7 X-Archives-Hash: 24599142c61879bd873e609229683e00 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --wOfpMT8dUjHc25SxoXRco7pXjeiHGC2fK Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="7EfsKWXD4j9wpCwVwgv8teqvnva9rvmUO"; protected-headers="v1" From: Daniel Campbell To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <04bdd0e8-0d5d-dcc1-11c3-8f861f1e6ab3@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Revisions for USE flag changes References: <53c9d820-5852-730a-3728-793855c98a1a@gentoo.org> <6912b3d6-4d66-ef99-223c-5892549b571e@gentoo.org> <4bf31717-7dbe-78ec-30e1-78f12f63174e@gentoo.org> <9a4c73d7-34b7-d84e-b9f6-ff5abcc6ec31@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: --7EfsKWXD4j9wpCwVwgv8teqvnva9rvmUO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 08/13/2017 03:11 AM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 08/12/2017 10:52 PM, Duncan wrote: >> >> How so? Are you arguing that deciding to system-wide switch to/from=20 >> pulseaudio, systemd, or gstreamer is nonsense? >> >=20 > The meaning of any one USE flag varies widely across packages. I could > never say "I want to enable USE=3Dgstreamer" for every package in the > tree, because I have no idea what it does for most of them. Setting > USE=3Dwhatever globally essentially means "make random changes to my > system" -- hence my wording. >=20 > The meaning of a USE flag is per-package, so per-package is the only > meaningful way to set them. >=20 There are USE flag situations that are relevant at the global level. systemd, pulseaudio, alsa, gstreamer, openssl/libressl, libav/ffmpeg, vim-syntax, and so on. Then there's USE_EXPAND variables, which might mean different things in different packages and yet I see nothing in your argument covering them. These flags make perfect sense at the global level, because users generally want support for the choices they make, and they make choices on that *general* level first, before diving into package-specific USE flags. It's a monumental waste of developer and user time to manually set major USE flags in every relevant package. Some people are picky and will still do that, but global USE ensures that certain assumptions are made about your system. If you don't want assumptions, don't use global USE. There's no reason to deprive others of functionality you don't personally agree with or use. Granted, some flags don't belong in make.conf. But part of Gentoo's beauty is that we *do* let users proverbially saw their leg off, if that's what they really want. There are lots of use cases that would be made ridiculous in scope if we got rid of global USE. Is your only answer a megabyte-long p.use file? That said, I like your idea of clearing up revbump decisions and the angle of reducing development burden. This particular idea comes at too high a cost for my taste, as we stand to lose functionality rather than improve or gain it. ~zlg --=20 Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6 --7EfsKWXD4j9wpCwVwgv8teqvnva9rvmUO-- --wOfpMT8dUjHc25SxoXRco7pXjeiHGC2fK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEgIn+0tMDW9PQWDLnASQOlFA54XAFAlmUpzkACgkQASQOlFA5 4XC1bA/9Gd9O/3iBTXjqc6lDXK73fOtz1fmUSvQ6DXrfZDqCh6l82GoKjAEGbk+6 PTVS8t/lwbZ5qxgHnmthLKjEK9UnzWcjyTO3irzTorHd1nptQjmLQbHjAnBIIBzo 40btWyuy2SPC4oSwTUAOGqho5EfMQlFWh1ayhXPkTv5PJ90ADKYeGqyC9jf/BA78 MsloruKCbQBSirR7y0VpA7gWb442EB/wBVG8S1YgRqnMGu/llLiqym7wmkWaSutN rd9eyLQ/bx/1oj+/rUMz66SNX1KiEUKFoSwBGw5z3kd9NqwtM+HM+eksDwR2azl7 VFUqyUpiIBb23fHU04RvwPBT3siAf7aHBZUXSBjO7iqTQM0KJJVJcSWO7GPjzVlk GuXbU0ThHgY793Dt/ufI6WJJfLnm7+yK+B5A+Ph3KZLvVxXqOnhVsl8SIRSlr/Bv 1+KhyuEfFAEZDUotbJLbGaHdEC/BT2Nr964OAi+WsuJclszYavg3K+V79gzqrF1i fgPvcn94fHbfVCd3zwX2MPCK+KNBHXntXl0Qql062hzrPoK7ig+yE/WwPEZ8x4Ws 2/1di0d47pkpx5WsIgl+ejioTtDzOa9uKcs+Ay/XtjR9vuJNEH1csKXYfm185TiP ie8wemRN4iR3jwFgqA81SrS0i9iQx887+9N9kar78fgtEicKw+w= =DGGl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --wOfpMT8dUjHc25SxoXRco7pXjeiHGC2fK--