From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3B36138334 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 12:18:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 106D9E089A; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 12:18:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (mail.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B175AE086D for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 12:18:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from thinkpad.fritz.box (unknown [IPv6:2001:4060:c005:3f00:9491:b020:96bd:fae]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: soap) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 25B193466C3 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2019 12:18:28 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <02da0f1c4ba432d4f66bf1b98f72ebdf1ce64e16.camel@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [PATCH v3] glep-0081: User and group management via dedicated packages From: David Seifert To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:18:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20190621150233.c159ee29fedb595156bbd192@gentoo.org> References: <20190609113955.19208-1-mgorny@gentoo.org> <8d6601e6-a295-778e-5dc8-5d9f01701c7d@gentoo.org> <20190621085908.0f6a515900767930adea7183@gentoo.org> <20190621150233.c159ee29fedb595156bbd192@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.30.5 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 4d441169-ce92-4ee3-b261-00981557ba92 X-Archives-Hash: 0647a01aac2eb40b699252eccff8d449 On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 15:02 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 09:18:23 +0200 David Seifert wrote: > > On Fri, 2019-06-21 at 08:59 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > > On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 16:32:56 +0200 Michał Górny wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2019-06-20 at 09:53 -0400, Brian Evans wrote: > > > > > On 6/9/2019 7:39 AM, Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > +Tracking of user/group usage is done through > > > > > > dependencies. As > > > > > > long > > > > > > +as any installed package depends on a specific user/group > > > > > > package, > > > > > > +the respective user/group is assumed to be used. If no > > > > > > package > > > > > > +requiring the specific user/group is left, the package > > > > > > manager > > > > > > +automatically prunes the package clearly indicating it is > > > > > > no > > > > > > longer > > > > > > +used. > > > > > > > > > > You cannot know when a name is "no longer used". An > > > > > administrator could > > > > > have adopted a username for other purposes. > > > > > > > > That's why we don't remove the actual user/group. However, > > > > this is > > > > a valuable information to the administrator that no package is > > > > using > > > > the user/group in question. > > > > > > So how do you propose to clean them up? Or let user systems trash > > > with unused uids/gids? The GLEP 81 only mensions some possible > > > tooling for cleanup. Is there an implementation available? I > > > don't > > > see it within proposed patch sets. > > > > > > This GLEP should not be accepted unless all necessary tools are > > > available including a cleanup tool. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Andrew Savchenko > > > > Strongly disagree: > > > > 1) User systems are already getting trashed. And apparently it's > > not a > > critical thing that prevents users from using Gentoo in practice. > > 2) A cleanup tool at best will only tell you which files you need > > to > > check, randomly deleting files with orphaned uids/gids is not a > > good > > idea. > > What will happen when some acct-*/* package will be unmerged? Will > uid/gid record and/or its files be deteleted? > > > 3) This proposal strictly increases the quality of Gentoo. Don't > > let > > perfect be the enemy of the good. The fact that the problem isn't > > solved to 100% doesn't mean that a solution that gets us there 85% > > should be rejected. > > > > Strongly vote +1 to merge this now. > > > > > > Best regards, > Andrew Savchenko They will remain orphaned on the file system. So again, this is in no way worse than the status quo, and given that users/groups will be managed through a package manager, tracking orphaned uids/gids is a lot better with this proposal.