[gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Greg Kuhn]

I would like to see grub implemented into the catalyst process.
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gentoo-catalyst@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[John Davis]

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On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 03:16 -0800, Greg Kuhn wrote:
> I would like to see grub implemented into the catalyst process.
> --
> gentoo-catalyst@gentoo.org mailing list
> 

You will have to elaborate a bit. Would you like to see it integrated
into the LiveCDs?

Cheers,
//John
-- 
John Davis <zhen@gentoo.org>
The Gentoo Foundation
Trustee | Release Engineering Manager | Catalyst code monkey

---
"When people learn no tools of judgement and merely follow their hopes,
the seeds of political manipulation are sown"
- Stephen Jay Gould

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 10:29 -0500, John Davis wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 03:16 -0800, Greg Kuhn wrote:
> > I would like to see grub implemented into the catalyst process.
> > --
> > gentoo-catalyst@gentoo.org mailing list
> > 
> 
> You will have to elaborate a bit. Would you like to see it integrated
> into the LiveCDs?

Actually, someone is already working on grub support.

To go along with it, I think I am going to break up the cdtar stuff and
start having catalyst build them (and cache them) instead.  This allows
us to create either isolinux or grub-based LiveCD images, and also
allows for things like pxelinux-based images.

I don't know how quickly this will come about, but I'm getting really
close to wrapping up a catalyst 1.1.2, so it might have to wait until
the next version.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Operations/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Adam Greenhalgh]

> Actually, someone is already working on grub support.
> 
> To go along with it, I think I am going to break up the cdtar stuff and
> start having catalyst build them (and cache them) instead.  This allows
> us to create either isolinux or grub-based LiveCD images, and also
> allows for things like pxelinux-based images.

I agree completely, a pxelinux-based image would be great. I'd like to see it include full support for having the root fs as read-only.

Adam
-- 
Adam Greenhalgh <adam@hiddennet.net>

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Guy Martin]

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On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 17:11:12 +0000
Adam Greenhalgh <adam@hiddennet.net> wrote:

> 
> > Actually, someone is already working on grub support.
> > 
> > To go along with it, I think I am going to break up the cdtar stuff
> > and start having catalyst build them (and cache them) instead.  This
> > allows us to create either isolinux or grub-based LiveCD images, and
> > also allows for things like pxelinux-based images.
> 
> I agree completely, a pxelinux-based image would be great. I'd like to
> see it include full support for having the root fs as read-only.

I'm still working on it. I should have a final diff at the end of the
week. I'm improving kernel cache support atm.

-- 
Guy Martin
Gentoo Linux - HPPA port Lead / IPv6 team
Lug Charleroi (Belgium)

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[David Bryson]

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On Sun, Jan 09, 2005 at 10:18:30AM -0500 or thereabouts, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> To go along with it, I think I am going to break up the cdtar stuff and
> start having catalyst build them (and cache them) instead.  This allows
> us to create either isolinux or grub-based LiveCD images, and also
> allows for things like pxelinux-based images.
> 

I want to know what is meant here by 'grub' support.  Catalyst is used
to build stages.  So how would grub come in useful ?  Most of the time
you are not even building the stage on the same system you will be
deploying it on.

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 23:02 -0800, David Bryson wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 09, 2005 at 10:18:30AM -0500 or thereabouts, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > To go along with it, I think I am going to break up the cdtar stuff and
> > start having catalyst build them (and cache them) instead.  This allows
> > us to create either isolinux or grub-based LiveCD images, and also
> > allows for things like pxelinux-based images.
> > 
> 
> I want to know what is meant here by 'grub' support.  Catalyst is used
> to build stages.  So how would grub come in useful ?  Most of the time
> you are not even building the stage on the same system you will be
> deploying it on.

Grub support as in a LiveCD booting to grub rather than isolinux, which
allows us to give people a menu and other such fun stuff.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Operational/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[M. Edward Borasky]

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 23:02 -0800, David Bryson wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 09, 2005 at 10:18:30AM -0500 or thereabouts, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > To go along with it, I think I am going to break up the cdtar stuff and
> > start having catalyst build them (and cache them) instead.  This allows
> > us to create either isolinux or grub-based LiveCD images, and also
> > allows for things like pxelinux-based images.
> > 
> 
> I want to know what is meant here by 'grub' support.  Catalyst is used
> to build stages.  So how would grub come in useful ?  Most of the time
> you are not even building the stage on the same system you will be
> deploying it on.

I believe "Kanotix",a Knoppix derivative, comes up in Grub and offers a
really fancy menu as a result. I just booted Kanotix last night, by
coincidence. It's rather non-intuitive if you're used to something else,
though. It always takes me a while to figure out how to add my vsync and
screen size to the kernel boot parameters; Knoppix can't figure my
monitor out for some reason and gives me a "warped" screen if I don't
supply those values.

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[gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Chip DeVoge]

A gui for catalyst would be nice. And a menu of scripts.
Chip


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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 14:08 -0600, Chip DeVoge wrote:
> A gui for catalyst would be nice. And a menu of scripts.

No offense meant by this, but how exactly would a gui be better than
"catalyst -f spec.file"?  If you had other ideas on its use, please
explain, as I'm just not seeing it.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Operations/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Michiel de Bruijne]

On Sunday 09 January 2005 16:19, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 14:08 -0600, Chip DeVoge wrote:
> > A gui for catalyst would be nice. And a menu of scripts.
>
> No offense meant by this, but how exactly would a gui be better than
> "catalyst -f spec.file"?  If you had other ideas on its use, please
> explain, as I'm just not seeing it.

I think he means a graphical interface for creating spec-files.
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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Chip DeVoge]

Yes or a text menu of choices of spec files.
More specifically a spec to make a livecd backup of my distfiles and portage 
(similar to the 2 cd stage 3 install only up to date for my system) and one 
for making a live gamecd.


On Sunday 09 January 2005 16:19, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
 > On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 14:08 -0600, Chip DeVoge wrote:
 > > A gui for catalyst would be nice. And a menu of scripts.
 >
 > No offense meant by this, but how exactly would a gui be better than
 > "catalyst -f spec.file"?  If you had other ideas on its use, please
 > explain, as I'm just not seeing it.

I think he means a graphical interface for creating spec-files.
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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 19:53 -0600, Chip DeVoge wrote:
> Yes or a text menu of choices of spec files.
> More specifically a spec to make a livecd backup of my distfiles and portage 
> (similar to the 2 cd stage 3 install only up to date for my system) and one 
> for making a live gamecd.

So you want a specific spec-file creation which is different than the
general Gentoo purpose for catalyst?  I'm afraid you'll be on your own
on this one, at least while heavy catalyst development is still going
on.  Perhaps one of the nice members of this list could write up a set
of spec files for you to accomplish just this.

As for the GameCD stuff, there's a reason why I (the Games Team GameCD
guy, along with my Release Engineering responsibilities) haven't
released any GameCD releases.

It doesn't work.  In fact, that is one of the things that I am
developing fairly heavily, as it parallels the X-based LiveCD stuff so
easily.

It really boils down to one thing.  Would you rather us stop working on
catalyst and focus on making a GUI for it which would be inflexible and
only capable of limited functionality, or would you rather us spend our
time improving catalyst with new features and better documentation?

Anyone can write a GUI for catalyst, especially a GUI for creating spec
files.  Remember that spec-file creation is *not* a function of
catalyst, at all.  The spec-files are simply used by catalyst.
Therefore a GUI spec-file builder does not have to be tied to catalyst's
development in any way, other than to offer all the options that
catalyst does.

> On Sunday 09 January 2005 16:19, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
>  > On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 14:08 -0600, Chip DeVoge wrote:
>  > > A gui for catalyst would be nice. And a menu of scripts.
>  >
>  > No offense meant by this, but how exactly would a gui be better than
>  > "catalyst -f spec.file"?  If you had other ideas on its use, please
>  > explain, as I'm just not seeing it.
> 
> I think he means a graphical interface for creating spec-files.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Operational/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman]

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Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> No offense meant by this, but how exactly would a gui be better than
> "catalyst -f spec.file"?

I think he means a GUI to create spec files, probably something like a n-step wizard. Sounds good to
me... well, I'm more of a no framebuffer / no X11 user/admin/developer, but many people wil benefit
from it. (By learning how to make spec files from the ground up, withouth having to read splattered
doc from multi places).

-- 
Arturo "Buanzo" Busleiman - www.buanzo.com.ar - GNU/Linux Documentation
President, Open Information System Security Group - Argentina
Registered Linux User #134185 - Linux Counter Manager for Argentina.


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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[William Kilian]

Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote:

> I think he means a GUI to create spec files, probably something like a 
> n-step wizard. Sounds good to
> me... well, I'm more of a no framebuffer / no X11 
> user/admin/developer, but many people wil benefit
> from it. (By learning how to make spec files from the ground up, 
> withouth having to read splattered
> doc from multi places).
>
I know several have already seconded this desire for a graphical (or at 
least curses) interface for getting going with catalyst. I have two 
objections:

1. It seems to me the goals that would be met by a GUI for catalyst are 
already stated goals for the Gentoo Installer.

2. I'd rather have *the same and complete* documentation in multiple places.

Implementing a GUI for catalyst or for generating spec files would 
duplicate effort that is already in progress in the GI project and would 
pull resources from completing documentation goals. The documentation 
goals seem much more important to me and faster to complete than a spec 
file generator.

The documentation included with the catalyst package seems to be 
entirely example spec files. The website documentation is currently a 
reference page and a faq. I'd like to see the example spec files on the 
website and the reference and faq included with the package (when 
USE=doc of course).

William Kilian

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 16:57 -0300, Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman wrote:
> Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > No offense meant by this, but how exactly would a gui be better than
> > "catalyst -f spec.file"?
> 
> I think he means a GUI to create spec files, probably something like a n-step wizard. Sounds good to
> me... well, I'm more of a no framebuffer / no X11 user/admin/developer, but many people wil benefit
> from it. (By learning how to make spec files from the ground up, withouth having to read splattered
> doc from multi places).

I'll be honest with you on this one.  For now, I can guarantee you that
catalyst is changing a bit too rapidly for this to really be possible.
Not to mention the sheer number of possible options for certain targets
(livecd-stage2 comes to mind) would make it near impossible to use any
form of guided format.

Once things stabilize a good bit, it might be easier.

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Operational/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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Re: [gentoo-catalyst] Wishlist for 2005

[Chris Gianelloni]

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On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 03:16 -0800, Greg Kuhn wrote:
> I would like to see grub implemented into the catalyst process.

This is being worked on currently by rocket.

I will tell you that we won't be using it for releases, as it doesn't do
what we would want it to do.

If some of you want to port grub to ppc/ppc64/sparc/hppa/mips/arm/s390,
then we'd gladly use it.  ;]

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux

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