[gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Gerhard Erker 1]

Hello
I have a Microsoft wireless Laser Keyboard 6000 V2.0 and the Microsoft
wireless Laser Mouse 6000.
I tried to install Gentoo for AMD64 from the minimal installation cd.
Unfortunately, when I booted, my keyboard was not recognized. I tried to
boot with the hardware-option "doscsi", but it worked not. I saw that
the "Num Lock" light is on when I switch on the computer. I can also
write Boot-Options. When booting the gentoo-kernel for installation,
Num-Lock switches off and my keyboard will not work.
My Keyboard works on all Linux- and windows installations. Also I don't
found help in Google.
Can anyone help me?
My configuration:
Intel Quadcore Q6600 2.4GHZ
Two SATA harddisks
Nvidia Geforce 9600 
4 GB Memory

If some of you have questions about configuration ... please let me
know. 

Thanks in advance for your help


Gerhard Erker

p.s.:Excuse my english

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Chris Faulkner]

Make sure in your BIOS to have Legacy USB and USB Keyboard and Mouse Enabled

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Gerhard Erker 1<aon.913247124@aon.at> wrote:
> Hello
> I have a Microsoft wireless Laser Keyboard 6000 V2.0 and the Microsoft
> wireless Laser Mouse 6000.
> I tried to install Gentoo for AMD64 from the minimal installation cd.
> Unfortunately, when I booted, my keyboard was not recognized. I tried to
> boot with the hardware-option "doscsi", but it worked not. I saw that
> the "Num Lock" light is on when I switch on the computer. I can also
> write Boot-Options. When booting the gentoo-kernel for installation,
> Num-Lock switches off and my keyboard will not work.
> My Keyboard works on all Linux- and windows installations. Also I don't
> found help in Google.
> Can anyone help me?
> My configuration:
> Intel Quadcore Q6600 2.4GHZ
> Two SATA harddisks
> Nvidia Geforce 9600
> 4 GB Memory
>
> If some of you have questions about configuration ... please let me
> know.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help
>
>
> Gerhard Erker
>
> p.s.:Excuse my english
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Gerhard Erker 1]

This was the first idea, when i googled. Legacy usb-support is on, the
bios says "1 keyboard, 2 hubs". Has anyone the same problem?
At the moment I have Suse 11.1 installed, and the keyboard is working.
Thanks in advance

Gerhard Erker


Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2009, 14:21 -0500 schrieb Chris Faulkner:
> Make sure in your BIOS to have Legacy USB and USB Keyboard and Mouse Enabled
> 
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Gerhard Erker 1<aon.913247124@aon.at> wrote:
> > Hello
> > I have a Microsoft wireless Laser Keyboard 6000 V2.0 and the Microsoft
> > wireless Laser Mouse 6000.
> > I tried to install Gentoo for AMD64 from the minimal installation cd.
> > Unfortunately, when I booted, my keyboard was not recognized. I tried to
> > boot with the hardware-option "doscsi", but it worked not. I saw that
> > the "Num Lock" light is on when I switch on the computer. I can also
> > write Boot-Options. When booting the gentoo-kernel for installation,
> > Num-Lock switches off and my keyboard will not work.
> > My Keyboard works on all Linux- and windows installations. Also I don't
> > found help in Google.
> > Can anyone help me?
> > My configuration:
> > Intel Quadcore Q6600 2.4GHZ
> > Two SATA harddisks
> > Nvidia Geforce 9600
> > 4 GB Memory
> >
> > If some of you have questions about configuration ... please let me
> > know.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help
> >
> >
> > Gerhard Erker
> >
> > p.s.:Excuse my english
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Gerhard Erker 1<aon.913247124@aon.at> wrote:
> This was the first idea, when i googled. Legacy usb-support is on, the
> bios says "1 keyboard, 2 hubs". Has anyone the same problem?
> At the moment I have Suse 11.1 installed, and the keyboard is working.
> Thanks in advance
>
> Gerhard Erker
>
>
> Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2009, 14:21 -0500 schrieb Chris Faulkner:
>> Make sure in your BIOS to have Legacy USB and USB Keyboard and Mouse Enabled
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Gerhard Erker 1<aon.913247124@aon.at> wrote:
>> > Hello
>> > I have a Microsoft wireless Laser Keyboard 6000 V2.0 and the Microsoft
>> > wireless Laser Mouse 6000.
>> > I tried to install Gentoo for AMD64 from the minimal installation cd.
>> > Unfortunately, when I booted, my keyboard was not recognized. I tried to
>> > boot with the hardware-option "doscsi", but it worked not. I saw that
>> > the "Num Lock" light is on when I switch on the computer. I can also
>> > write Boot-Options. When booting the gentoo-kernel for installation,
>> > Num-Lock switches off and my keyboard will not work.
>> > My Keyboard works on all Linux- and windows installations. Also I don't
>> > found help in Google.
>> > Can anyone help me?
>> > My configuration:
>> > Intel Quadcore Q6600 2.4GHZ
>> > Two SATA harddisks
>> > Nvidia Geforce 9600
>> > 4 GB Memory
>> >
>> > If some of you have questions about configuration ... please let me
>> > know.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for your help
>> >
>> >
>> > Gerhard Erker
>> >
>> > p.s.:Excuse my english

Hi Gerhard,
   There's nothing wrong with your English and it's far better than my German!

   I'm not clear whether you cannot use the keyboard at all, or
whether it's not there when you've finished booting? When you first
start booting the AMD64 install CD there's a point where you can
choose the kernel you want to boot. The options there allow you to
look at hardware options. Are you saying the USB keyboard worked at
this point, you could hit F1, F2, F3, etc. and it worked, but then
failed to work after the kernel was done booting?

   I personally thought doscsi was mainly aimed at booting from scsi
and USB drives and not for enabling keyboards, etc., so you might try
it both ways. I see other options you might try:

nolapic
nosmp
slowusb
scandelay

   Unfortunately you really didn't provide the portion of your
configuration that is most likely going to be the issue which is your
chipset.

   It may be that you need a BIOS update to get full support for USB
keyboards. My son has an Asus MB with an Intel Quad-Core and we never
managed to install win XP with the USB keyboard. We did the install
with a PS2 keyboard and then shifted over to USB when it was done. On
the other hand I've got some older x86 machines that installed just
fine with USB.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Gerhard Erker 1]

Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2009, 13:18 -0700 schrieb Mark Knecht:
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Gerhard Erker 1<aon.913247124@aon.at> wrote:
> > This was the first idea, when i googled. Legacy usb-support is on, the
> > bios says "1 keyboard, 2 hubs". Has anyone the same problem?
> > At the moment I have Suse 11.1 installed, and the keyboard is working.
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Gerhard Erker
> >
> >
> > Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2009, 14:21 -0500 schrieb Chris Faulkner:
> >> Make sure in your BIOS to have Legacy USB and USB Keyboard and Mouse Enabled
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Gerhard Erker 1<aon.913247124@aon.at> wrote:
> >> > Hello
> >> > I have a Microsoft wireless Laser Keyboard 6000 V2.0 and the Microsoft
> >> > wireless Laser Mouse 6000.
> >> > I tried to install Gentoo for AMD64 from the minimal installation cd.
> >> > Unfortunately, when I booted, my keyboard was not recognized. I tried to
> >> > boot with the hardware-option "doscsi", but it worked not. I saw that
> >> > the "Num Lock" light is on when I switch on the computer. I can also
> >> > write Boot-Options. When booting the gentoo-kernel for installation,
> >> > Num-Lock switches off and my keyboard will not work.
> >> > My Keyboard works on all Linux- and windows installations. Also I don't
> >> > found help in Google.
> >> > Can anyone help me?
> >> > My configuration:
> >> > Intel Quadcore Q6600 2.4GHZ
> >> > Two SATA harddisks
> >> > Nvidia Geforce 9600
> >> > 4 GB Memory
> >> >
> >> > If some of you have questions about configuration ... please let me
> >> > know.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance for your help
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gerhard Erker
> >> >
> >> > p.s.:Excuse my english
> 
> Hi Gerhard,
>    There's nothing wrong with your English and it's far better than my German!
> 
>    I'm not clear whether you cannot use the keyboard at all, or
> whether it's not there when you've finished booting? When you first
> start booting the AMD64 install CD there's a point where you can
> choose the kernel you want to boot. The options there allow you to
> look at hardware options. Are you saying the USB keyboard worked at
> this point, you could hit F1, F2, F3, etc. and it worked, but then
> failed to work after the kernel was done booting?
> 
>    I personally thought doscsi was mainly aimed at booting from scsi
> and USB drives and not for enabling keyboards, etc., so you might try
> it both ways. I see other options you might try:
> 
> nolapic
> nosmp
> slowusb
> scandelay
> 
>    Unfortunately you really didn't provide the portion of your
> configuration that is most likely going to be the issue which is your
> chipset.
> 
>    It may be that you need a BIOS update to get full support for USB
> keyboards. My son has an Asus MB with an Intel Quad-Core and we never
> managed to install win XP with the USB keyboard. We did the install
> with a PS2 keyboard and then shifted over to USB when it was done. On
> the other hand I've got some older x86 machines that installed just
> fine with USB.
> 
> - Mark
> 
> 

Hello Mark,

I can use the keyboard when the first message is there. So I can use the
hardware options. When the gentoo-kernel is booting, i have no keyboard.
I used doscsi because the handbook says that this option is used to boot
the most usb-devices, because they use the scsi subsystem of the kernel.
I tried it both ways. 
Other configuration:

ASUS Mainboard, Socket 775 Intel G31 Chipset
Networkcard on board Attansic Gigabit ethernet
Audio Realtek ALC662 6-Channel High Definition


I cannot understand why my keyboard not works. It works not only on an
desktop or with windows. It also worked, when I was in console mode, or
when I worked in the repair mode of windows xp installation cd. It works
also when I change options in bios.
I will try with the options you suggested.
I think, my last options will be to plug in my old ps2-keyboard for
install and after install try to use my keyboard. I have a working
system so it is not so important to bring gentoo in a short time to
work.
Many thanks for your help. I would be glad to hear more ideas

Bye

Gerhard Erker

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Lance Lassetter]

On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 06:46 +0200, Gerhard Erker 1 wrote:
> Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2009, 13:18 -0700 schrieb Mark Knecht:
> > On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Gerhard Erker 1<aon.913247124@aon.at> wrote:
> > > This was the first idea, when i googled. Legacy usb-support is on, the
> > > bios says "1 keyboard, 2 hubs". Has anyone the same problem?
> > > At the moment I have Suse 11.1 installed, and the keyboard is working.
> > > Thanks in advance
> > >
> > > Gerhard Erker
> > >
> > >
> > > Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2009, 14:21 -0500 schrieb Chris Faulkner:
> > >> Make sure in your BIOS to have Legacy USB and USB Keyboard and Mouse Enabled
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Gerhard Erker 1<aon.913247124@aon.at> wrote:
> > >> > Hello
> > >> > I have a Microsoft wireless Laser Keyboard 6000 V2.0 and the Microsoft
> > >> > wireless Laser Mouse 6000.
> > >> > I tried to install Gentoo for AMD64 from the minimal installation cd.
> > >> > Unfortunately, when I booted, my keyboard was not recognized. I tried to
> > >> > boot with the hardware-option "doscsi", but it worked not. I saw that
> > >> > the "Num Lock" light is on when I switch on the computer. I can also
> > >> > write Boot-Options. When booting the gentoo-kernel for installation,
> > >> > Num-Lock switches off and my keyboard will not work.
> > >> > My Keyboard works on all Linux- and windows installations. Also I don't
> > >> > found help in Google.
> > >> > Can anyone help me?
> > >> > My configuration:
> > >> > Intel Quadcore Q6600 2.4GHZ
> > >> > Two SATA harddisks
> > >> > Nvidia Geforce 9600
> > >> > 4 GB Memory
> > >> >
> > >> > If some of you have questions about configuration ... please let me
> > >> > know.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks in advance for your help
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Gerhard Erker
> > >> >
> > >> > p.s.:Excuse my english
> > 
> > Hi Gerhard,
> >    There's nothing wrong with your English and it's far better than my German!
> > 
> >    I'm not clear whether you cannot use the keyboard at all, or
> > whether it's not there when you've finished booting? When you first
> > start booting the AMD64 install CD there's a point where you can
> > choose the kernel you want to boot. The options there allow you to
> > look at hardware options. Are you saying the USB keyboard worked at
> > this point, you could hit F1, F2, F3, etc. and it worked, but then
> > failed to work after the kernel was done booting?
> > 
> >    I personally thought doscsi was mainly aimed at booting from scsi
> > and USB drives and not for enabling keyboards, etc., so you might try
> > it both ways. I see other options you might try:
> > 
> > nolapic
> > nosmp
> > slowusb
> > scandelay
> > 
> >    Unfortunately you really didn't provide the portion of your
> > configuration that is most likely going to be the issue which is your
> > chipset.
> > 
> >    It may be that you need a BIOS update to get full support for USB
> > keyboards. My son has an Asus MB with an Intel Quad-Core and we never
> > managed to install win XP with the USB keyboard. We did the install
> > with a PS2 keyboard and then shifted over to USB when it was done. On
> > the other hand I've got some older x86 machines that installed just
> > fine with USB.
> > 
> > - Mark
> > 
> > 
> 
> Hello Mark,
> 
> I can use the keyboard when the first message is there. So I can use the
> hardware options. When the gentoo-kernel is booting, i have no keyboard.
> I used doscsi because the handbook says that this option is used to boot
> the most usb-devices, because they use the scsi subsystem of the kernel.
> I tried it both ways. 
> Other configuration:
> 
> ASUS Mainboard, Socket 775 Intel G31 Chipset
> Networkcard on board Attansic Gigabit ethernet
> Audio Realtek ALC662 6-Channel High Definition
> 
> 
> I cannot understand why my keyboard not works. It works not only on an
> desktop or with windows. It also worked, when I was in console mode, or
> when I worked in the repair mode of windows xp installation cd. It works
> also when I change options in bios.
> I will try with the options you suggested.
> I think, my last options will be to plug in my old ps2-keyboard for
> install and after install try to use my keyboard. I have a working
> system so it is not so important to bring gentoo in a short time to
> work.
> Many thanks for your help. I would be glad to hear more ideas
> 
> Bye
> 
> Gerhard Erker
> 
> 

Gerhard,

Have you tried enabling evdev in make.conf under INPUT_DEVICES?

i.e. in make.conf:

INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev"

Lance

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[lists-kyle]

On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 09:15:42PM +0200, Gerhard Erker 1 wrote:
> Hello
> I have a Microsoft wireless Laser Keyboard 6000 V2.0 and the Microsoft
> wireless Laser Mouse 6000.
> I tried to install Gentoo for AMD64 from the minimal installation cd.
> Unfortunately, when I booted, my keyboard was not recognized. I tried to
> boot with the hardware-option "doscsi", but it worked not. I saw that
> the "Num Lock" light is on when I switch on the computer. I can also
> write Boot-Options. When booting the gentoo-kernel for installation,
> Num-Lock switches off and my keyboard will not work.
> My Keyboard works on all Linux- and windows installations. Also I don't
> found help in Google.

Have you tried disconnecting and reconnecting your keyboard or hub once 
the kernel has booted?  I've got my mouse and keyboard connected through 
a hub, and it always works in the BIOS and bootloader, but after Linux 
boots, sometimes my mouse and keyboard don't work.  Reconnecting the hub 
makes everything work.
This only seems to happen on one system (VIA K8T800 based motherboard.)

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Lance Lassetter<lancelassetter@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> Gerhard,
>
> Have you tried enabling evdev in make.conf under INPUT_DEVICES?
>
> i.e. in make.conf:
>
> INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev"
>
> Lance
>

???

How could he do this when he's trying to boot from an install CD?

???

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Gerhard Erker 1<aon.913247124@aon.at> wrote:
<SNIP>
>>
>>    Unfortunately you really didn't provide the portion of your
>> configuration that is most likely going to be the issue which is your
>> chipset.
>>
>>    It may be that you need a BIOS update to get full support for USB
>> keyboards. My son has an Asus MB with an Intel Quad-Core and we never
>> managed to install win XP with the USB keyboard. We did the install
>> with a PS2 keyboard and then shifted over to USB when it was done. On
>> the other hand I've got some older x86 machines that installed just
>> fine with USB.
>>
>> - Mark
>>
>>
>
> Hello Mark,
>
> I can use the keyboard when the first message is there. So I can use the
> hardware options. When the gentoo-kernel is booting, i have no keyboard.
> I used doscsi because the handbook says that this option is used to boot
> the most usb-devices, because they use the scsi subsystem of the kernel.
> I tried it both ways.
> Other configuration:
>
> ASUS Mainboard, Socket 775 Intel G31 Chipset
> Networkcard on board Attansic Gigabit ethernet
> Audio Realtek ALC662 6-Channel High Definition
>
>
> I cannot understand why my keyboard not works. It works not only on an
> desktop or with windows. It also worked, when I was in console mode, or
> when I worked in the repair mode of windows xp installation cd. It works
> also when I change options in bios.
> I will try with the options you suggested.
> I think, my last options will be to plug in my old ps2-keyboard for
> install and after install try to use my keyboard. I have a working
> system so it is not so important to bring gentoo in a short time to
> work.
> Many thanks for your help. I would be glad to hear more ideas
>
> Bye
>
> Gerhard Erker

Because you can use the keyboard to select which kernel you want to
boot and which hardware options then it means there is enough
functionality in BIOS to support the USB keyboard. Possibly a BIOS
update might help, but it seems unlikely to me.

My son's motherboard is an Asus also. Using a PS2 keyboard is what we
had to do here also, even for XP.

You should try Kyle's suggestion of hot-plugging your USB keyboard.
Maybe that will wake up USB hardware that somehow the boot process has
put to sleep?

Good luck.

[gentoo-amd64] Re: Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Duncan]

Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted
5bdc1c8b0908030725l402032d6l28d3869ee3f059b6@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
below, on  Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:25:02 -0700:

> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Lance
> Lassetter<lancelassetter@gmail.com> wrote: <SNIP>
>>
>> Have you tried enabling evdev in make.conf under INPUT_DEVICES?
>>
>> i.e. in make.conf:
>>
>> INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev"
>>
> ???
> 
> How could he do this when he's trying to boot from an install CD?

Hmm, mount the ISO using loopback, make the change, umount, burn?

(He did say he got around it using SuSE instead of a Gentoo LiveCD, which 
is what I did back in 2004 with Mandrake, as well.  But I thought the 
question was still interesting enough to answer.  Just because it's an 
ISO doesn't mean it can't be changed. =;^)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:18 AM, Duncan<1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
> Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted
> 5bdc1c8b0908030725l402032d6l28d3869ee3f059b6@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
> below, on  Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:25:02 -0700:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Lance
>> Lassetter<lancelassetter@gmail.com> wrote: <SNIP>
>>>
>>> Have you tried enabling evdev in make.conf under INPUT_DEVICES?
>>>
>>> i.e. in make.conf:
>>>
>>> INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev"
>>>
>> ???
>>
>> How could he do this when he's trying to boot from an install CD?
>
> Hmm, mount the ISO using loopback, make the change, umount, burn?
>
> (He did say he got around it using SuSE instead of a Gentoo LiveCD, which
> is what I did back in 2004 with Mandrake, as well.  But I thought the
> question was still interesting enough to answer.  Just because it's an
> ISO doesn't mean it can't be changed. =;^)
>

Duncan,
   So I guess you are suggesting that someone doing a Gentoo install,
and finding that the install CD fails to work, is then possibly going
to modify the install CD?

   Beyond that what make.conf are we speaking about? As I asked over
the weekend, and as far as I can tell, there is no make.conf on the
install CD to modify. (With the keyboard we don't have because we're
running USB unless this is a completely different installation on the
same machine, or we're doing it on a different machine.)

   Maybe I'm underestimating INPUT_DEVICES but I thought that was only
for xorg-server which isn't running when the install CD finishes
booting is it? Even if the OP had done what you suggested, had enough
knowledge of Gentoo to think about creating a make.conf file and
placing "keyboard mouse evdev" in it, burned a new copy, and then
rebooted, what changes about the environment that is running at that
point?

   I'm really confused and I know this because you are, no joke here,
one of my Gentoo guiding lights! Enlighten me! Please!

Cheers,
Mark

[gentoo-amd64] Re: Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Duncan]

Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted
5bdc1c8b0908030920p36508cf8n8b95915c367a18e6@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
below, on  Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:20:35 -0700:

> Duncan<1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>> Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted:
>>> Lance Lassetter<lancelassetter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried enabling evdev in make.conf under INPUT_DEVICES?
>>>
>>> How could he do this when he's trying to boot from an install CD?
>>
>> Hmm, mount the ISO using loopback, make the change, umount, burn?

>    So I guess you are suggesting that someone doing a Gentoo install,
> and finding that the install CD fails to work, is then possibly going to
> modify the install CD?
> 
>    Beyond that what make.conf are we speaking about? As I asked over
> the weekend, and as far as I can tell, there is no make.conf on the
> install CD to modify. (With the keyboard we don't have because we're
> running USB unless this is a completely different installation on the
> same machine, or we're doing it on a different machine.)
> 
>    Maybe I'm underestimating INPUT_DEVICES but I thought that was only
> for xorg-server which isn't running when the install CD finishes booting
> is it? Even if the OP had done what you suggested, had enough knowledge
> of Gentoo to think about creating a make.conf file and placing "keyboard
> mouse evdev" in it, burned a new copy, and then rebooted, what changes
> about the environment that is running at that point?
> 
>    I'm really confused and I know this because you are, no joke here,
> one of my Gentoo guiding lights! Enlighten me! Please!

Your points are valid (well, I'll take that guiding light thing at face 
value, thanks, but the rest anyway is valid, AFAIK), but that's not 
really what I was commenting on.

Seeing as he had already solved the problem, I was jumping into less 
serious mode, and the bit about not writing to a CD struck my fancy.
As it happens, I do pretty much just what I described with a floppy image 
when I update my BIOS.

My board's BIOS update is designed to install from DOS (it's a several 
years' old server board, after all), but I'm MICROS~1 free, so the first 
BIOS update I did I had to find a different solution.  What I came up 
with was a FreeDOS 1.44 MB floppy OEM image, just the basics, no high 
memory stuff or anything else that might interfere with the BIOS update.

So then I had a 1.44 MB floppy image, but the DOS binaries, etc on it 
only take a couple hundred KB, the rest is free space, but in the image, 
and a second set of files including the BIOS update *.bin image the DOS 
based updater executable, and a DOS batch file that together are smaller 
than the free space on my bootable FreeDOS image, but shipped separately 
in their own 1.44 MB floppy image.

Well, rather than write out two separate floppy images to actual 
floppies, I simply mounted the BIOS update one using the loopback and 
copied the files to my main system's filesystem, then umounted that 
image, now leaving me with separate files and my FreeDOS image.  Then I 
mounted the FreeDOS image read/write on the loopback and copied the 
update files over to it, let it finish the write, and umount.  Viola!  
Single bootable FreeDOS floppy image, now including the BIOS update files 
I needed.

I could then copy that image directly to a floppy using dd, write protect 
it, boot the floppy, and do my update.  Since that point I've updated the 
BIOS further another time or two, only now I already have a proven 
bootable image, so I don't have to download a new version of FreeDOS, 
only the BIOS update, then use a similar procedure to copy the new files 
to a fresh copy of the FreeDOS image, and overwrite my old floppy with 
the new combined image.  (Given floppy technology, I trust overwriting 
then verifying the new image in its entirety, far more than I would 
simply deleting the old update files directly on the floppy and adding 
the new ones.)

I've done the same thing with CD/DVD ISO images as well, only since 
they're cheaper and faster to write than CD-RW/CD+RW, I use burn-once 
discs, and just burn a new one if I need to make changes to the ISO.

So when I saw a post that to me implied that the ISO was read-only, I 
simply pointed out that the ISO could be mounted on the loopback and 
modified that way before actually burning it.  Just because it's an ISO 
image and we're used to thinking of them as CD/DVDs, and used to thinking 
of CD/DVDs as write-once, doesn't mean that the ISOs themselves can't be 
modified before they are burned.  That's really all I was pointing out.

So the bit about whether the file in question was actually there on the 
ISO image to modify, or whether having put it there, it'd actually be of 
any use (whether there was an xorg setup to run on the ISO at all), was 
really beside the point for me.  That wasn't what I was concerned with, 
especially since I'd seen that the problem was already solved.  I was 
simply pointing out that an ISO image isn't necessarily read-only data, 
and that it /can/ be modified.  Realizing that at some point many years 
ago was an epiphany of sorts for me, and given what seemed an implication 
that it couldn't be done, I was simply passing on that hey, ISOs CAN be 
modified. =;^)

Clear as mud?  =;^)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Duncan<1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
> Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted
> 5bdc1c8b0908030920p36508cf8n8b95915c367a18e6@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
> below, on  Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:20:35 -0700:
>
>> Duncan<1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>>> Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted:
>>>> Lance Lassetter<lancelassetter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you tried enabling evdev in make.conf under INPUT_DEVICES?
>>>>
>>>> How could he do this when he's trying to boot from an install CD?
>>>
>>> Hmm, mount the ISO using loopback, make the change, umount, burn?
>
>>    So I guess you are suggesting that someone doing a Gentoo install,
>> and finding that the install CD fails to work, is then possibly going to
>> modify the install CD?
>>
>>    Beyond that what make.conf are we speaking about? As I asked over
>> the weekend, and as far as I can tell, there is no make.conf on the
>> install CD to modify. (With the keyboard we don't have because we're
>> running USB unless this is a completely different installation on the
>> same machine, or we're doing it on a different machine.)
>>
>>    Maybe I'm underestimating INPUT_DEVICES but I thought that was only
>> for xorg-server which isn't running when the install CD finishes booting
>> is it? Even if the OP had done what you suggested, had enough knowledge
>> of Gentoo to think about creating a make.conf file and placing "keyboard
>> mouse evdev" in it, burned a new copy, and then rebooted, what changes
>> about the environment that is running at that point?
>>
>>    I'm really confused and I know this because you are, no joke here,
>> one of my Gentoo guiding lights! Enlighten me! Please!
>
> Your points are valid (well, I'll take that guiding light thing at face
> value, thanks, but the rest anyway is valid, AFAIK), but that's not
> really what I was commenting on.

You should always assume GLS (Guiding Light Status) when conversing
with me. :-)

>
> Seeing as he had already solved the problem,

Which I had not read at the time I responded....

> I was jumping into less
> serious mode, and the bit about not writing to a CD struck my fancy.
>

Fair enough.

I'm interested in the problems of installing Gentoo, whatever they
tend to be, as I'm one of the ever dwindling number of vocal Gentoo
supporters in the pro-audio community. (They are all leaving for Arch
or Ubuntu variants it seems) One acquaintance ask me about installing
64-bit Gentoo last week and specifically asked about new hardware
issues. Seemed to me that the OP's USB keyboard issue might be fairly
common so I wanted to try to solve it here, if possible. Seems it
wasn't unfortunately.

Anyway, good to know that I'm not *totally* off base with my view of
what these little bits of software do, and your point is interesting.
One thing that would be possible would be to do the setup as you
suggest, then zcat the running config to a .config file, go to the web
and get kernel source, compile the source with any changes required,
and then (possibly) install that kernel into whatever part of the iso
image necessary to make it an option for booting.

Still, installing from some other distro that actually works seems
easier and why, by the way, does that other distro support
installation for the OP when Gentoo does not? Seems strange to me....

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Chris Faulkner]

Then again it could be something like what I was experiencing.  I have
a MS Mouse and it would not work in FreeBSD.  I inquired about it on a
mailing list and they said that there wasn't any driver support for
that particular MS mouse.  It could be a simple matter of no driver
support in the OS.  Try a Logitech keyboard or some other keyboard.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:00 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Duncan<1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>> Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted
>> 5bdc1c8b0908030920p36508cf8n8b95915c367a18e6@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
>> below, on  Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:20:35 -0700:
>>
>>> Duncan<1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted:
>>>>> Lance Lassetter<lancelassetter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you tried enabling evdev in make.conf under INPUT_DEVICES?
>>>>>
>>>>> How could he do this when he's trying to boot from an install CD?
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, mount the ISO using loopback, make the change, umount, burn?
>>
>>>    So I guess you are suggesting that someone doing a Gentoo install,
>>> and finding that the install CD fails to work, is then possibly going to
>>> modify the install CD?
>>>
>>>    Beyond that what make.conf are we speaking about? As I asked over
>>> the weekend, and as far as I can tell, there is no make.conf on the
>>> install CD to modify. (With the keyboard we don't have because we're
>>> running USB unless this is a completely different installation on the
>>> same machine, or we're doing it on a different machine.)
>>>
>>>    Maybe I'm underestimating INPUT_DEVICES but I thought that was only
>>> for xorg-server which isn't running when the install CD finishes booting
>>> is it? Even if the OP had done what you suggested, had enough knowledge
>>> of Gentoo to think about creating a make.conf file and placing "keyboard
>>> mouse evdev" in it, burned a new copy, and then rebooted, what changes
>>> about the environment that is running at that point?
>>>
>>>    I'm really confused and I know this because you are, no joke here,
>>> one of my Gentoo guiding lights! Enlighten me! Please!
>>
>> Your points are valid (well, I'll take that guiding light thing at face
>> value, thanks, but the rest anyway is valid, AFAIK), but that's not
>> really what I was commenting on.
>
> You should always assume GLS (Guiding Light Status) when conversing
> with me. :-)
>
>>
>> Seeing as he had already solved the problem,
>
> Which I had not read at the time I responded....
>
>> I was jumping into less
>> serious mode, and the bit about not writing to a CD struck my fancy.
>>
>
> Fair enough.
>
> I'm interested in the problems of installing Gentoo, whatever they
> tend to be, as I'm one of the ever dwindling number of vocal Gentoo
> supporters in the pro-audio community. (They are all leaving for Arch
> or Ubuntu variants it seems) One acquaintance ask me about installing
> 64-bit Gentoo last week and specifically asked about new hardware
> issues. Seemed to me that the OP's USB keyboard issue might be fairly
> common so I wanted to try to solve it here, if possible. Seems it
> wasn't unfortunately.
>
> Anyway, good to know that I'm not *totally* off base with my view of
> what these little bits of software do, and your point is interesting.
> One thing that would be possible would be to do the setup as you
> suggest, then zcat the running config to a .config file, go to the web
> and get kernel source, compile the source with any changes required,
> and then (possibly) install that kernel into whatever part of the iso
> image necessary to make it an option for booting.
>
> Still, installing from some other distro that actually works seems
> easier and why, by the way, does that other distro support
> installation for the OP when Gentoo does not? Seems strange to me....
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>

[gentoo-amd64] Re: Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Duncan]

Chris Faulkner <cfaulkner70@gmail.com> posted
77e2f44f0908031610p25e2d84et4be580037c33d8eb@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
below, on  Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:10:04 -0500:

> Then again it could be something like what I was experiencing.  I have a
> MS Mouse and it would not work in FreeBSD.  I inquired about it on a
> mailing list and they said that there wasn't any driver support for that
> particular MS mouse.  It could be a simple matter of no driver support
> in the OS.  Try a Logitech keyboard or some other keyboard.

FWIW I had an MS mouse/keyboard, wireless, at one point, but while they 
worked, the wireless reliability was terrible.  I have a strong suspicion 
that the MS drivers had Tx power adjustment, either as a config option, 
or automatic, and that it was defaulting to the lowest setting on Linux, 
which didn't have that feature as it was using the generic driver 
settings.

But Logitech has always been extremely solid for me, and this is my 
second $100 wireless keyboard from them (the first unfortunately got 
dripped on when my old A/C unit dripped on it, and the membrane keyboard 
traces dissolved).

But he did say somewhere in the thread that it worked on another Linux 
distribution, so it couldn't be that Linux doesn't have the proper 
driver.  Just the LiveCD didn't.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

[gentoo-amd64] Re: Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Duncan]

Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted
5bdc1c8b0908031600p4ba190b0ya560748a6d636126@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
below, on  Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:00:32 -0700:

> Still, installing from some other distro that actually works seems
> easier and why, by the way, does that other distro support installation
> for the OP when Gentoo does not? Seems strange to me....

Really, I never did figure out why Gentoo bothers with a LiveCD at all, 
except to be able to say it's eating its own dogfood, as they say.  It's 
perfectly doable to boot one of the other LiveCD versions, do the setup 
thru filesystem format and mount, download the stage tarball to the newly 
setup filesystem, and go from there.  Doing that is one of the options in 
the alternate installation guide, last I looked anyway, and is about what 
I did as I said only in my case I was running Mandrake on other 
partitions on the hard drive, and used it instead of a different LiveCD 
to do the initial partitioning, etc.

That would be far simpler and less hassle than trying to keep a working 
LiveCD, when doing a LiveCD isn't your specialty, as it isn't with 
Gentoo.  And that could be made the installation method covered in the 
main handbook reasonably easily, as well.  But, as I said, there IS a 
degree of integrity to be seen in having and using your own, and I 
suspect that's why Gentoo continues to offer it.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Lie Ryan]

Duncan wrote:
> Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> posted
> 5bdc1c8b0908031600p4ba190b0ya560748a6d636126@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
> below, on  Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:00:32 -0700:
> 
>> Still, installing from some other distro that actually works seems
>> easier and why, by the way, does that other distro support installation
>> for the OP when Gentoo does not? Seems strange to me....
> 
> Really, I never did figure out why Gentoo bothers with a LiveCD at all, 
> except to be able to say it's eating its own dogfood, as they say.  It's 
> perfectly doable to boot one of the other LiveCD versions, do the setup 
> thru filesystem format and mount, download the stage tarball to the newly 
> setup filesystem, and go from there.  Doing that is one of the options in 
> the alternate installation guide, last I looked anyway, and is about what 
> I did as I said only in my case I was running Mandrake on other 
> partitions on the hard drive, and used it instead of a different LiveCD 
> to do the initial partitioning, etc.
>
> That would be far simpler and less hassle than trying to keep a working 
> LiveCD, when doing a LiveCD isn't your specialty, as it isn't with 
> Gentoo.  And that could be made the installation method covered in the 
> main handbook reasonably easily, as well.  But, as I said, there IS a 
> degree of integrity to be seen in having and using your own, and I 
> suspect that's why Gentoo continues to offer it.

Costello: Hey, Abbott!
Abbot: Yes, Lou?
Costello: I just heard about Linux and I wanted to try installing it.
Abbot: That's great Lou. What distro are you planning for?
Costello: Gentoo. But I know nothing about Linux!!
Abbot: You will in time.
Costello: That's exactly why I am here to see you.
Abbot: Oh?
Costello: I heard that you are a real computer expert.
Abbot: Well, I don't know-
Costello: Yes-sir-ee. You know your stuff. And you're going to train me.
Abbot: Really?
Costello: Uh huh. And I am here for my first lesson.
Abbot: O.K. Lou. What do you want to know?
Costello: I am having problems with installing Gentoo. I heard you need
to use a CD?
Abbot: That's true.
Costello: So, here I am working on my new computer to install Gentoo.
What do I do?
Abbot: Well, first you go to mandriva.com and-
Costello: No, I told you, I want to install Gentoo.
Abbot: I know, you go to mandriva.com-
Costello: Wait a second. I want to install Gentoo. Gentoo. I'm not
interested in Mandriva. So tell me what to do.
Abbot: I did.
Costello: When?
Abbot: When I told you to go to mandriva.com.
Costello: Why should I mandriva.com?
Abbot: To install Gentoo.
Costello: I go to mandriva.com to install Gentoo.
Abbot: Well you don't actually install Mandriva.
Costello: I knew it! So what do I download?
Abbot: Mandriva LiveCD.
Costello: Mandriva what?
Abbot: Mandriva LiveCD.
Costello: Mandriva LiveCD to do what?
Abbot: Install Gentoo.
Costello: You don't have to get rude!
Abbot: No, no, no! That's not what I meant.
Costello: Then say what you mean.
Abbot: To install Gentoo, go to-
Costello: Don't say it, ''mandriva.com!''
Abbot: Then what do you want me to say?
Costello: Look, if I want to install Gentoo, I am willing to
go to gentoo.com, or gentoo.org, but
no one in their right mind downloaded Mandriva to install Gentoo.
Abbot: But that's what you do.
Costello: And you probably go to gentoo.org to install Mandriva, and 
apple.com to install Windows.
Abbot: Don't be ridiculous.
Costello: I am being ridiculous? Well. I think it's about time we
go to apple.com.
Abbot: What are you talking about?
Costello: I'm sick of oranges. Good-bye.

Shamelessly adapted from: http://www.ajokes.com/jokes/276.html

[gentoo-amd64] Re: Problem with USB-Keyboard at Install

[Duncan]

Lie Ryan posted on Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:09:30 +1000 as excerpted:

[snip]
> Costello: Look, if I want to install Gentoo, I am willing to go to
>   gentoo.com, or gentoo.org, but no one in their right mind downloaded
>   Mandriva to install Gentoo.
> Abbot: But that's what you do.
> Costello: And you probably go to gentoo.org to install Mandriva, and
>   apple.com to install Windows.
> Abbot: Don't be ridiculous.
> Costello: I am being ridiculous? Well. I think it's about time we go to
>   apple.com.
> Abbot: What are you talking about?
> Costello: I'm sick of oranges. Good-bye.

LOL!  Good one!  But it does demonstrate why Gentoo is a bit reluctant to 
give up its own LiveCD for installation, even if that would be, were it 
not for the nature of people, probably the most logical thing to do.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman