[gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Karol Krizka]

Hi,

I have been following the music with linux kernel thread and I started
wondering what would be the best patchset for a desktop use. I have
read the Gentoo Kernel Guide and from it seems to me that ck-sources
are the best.

What do you use on your desktop? Are there any other patches that you
would recommend?  Is there any patches your would recommed for a
laptop?

--
Cheers,
Karol Krizka

Fun Game-> http://www.hobowars.com/182837/

-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Wednesday 05 October 2005 02:37, Karol Krizka wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been following the music with linux kernel thread and I started
> wondering what would be the best patchset for a desktop use. I have
> read the Gentoo Kernel Guide and from it seems to me that ck-sources
> are the best.
>
> What do you use on your desktop? Are there any other patches that you
> would recommend?  Is there any patches your would recommed for a
> laptop?
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Karol Krizka

I use gentoo-kernel or vanilla kernel.org kernels.

Even with my xp2000+ I didn't had dropouts while listening to music in normal 
usage (reading mails, compiling stuff, surfing the web, playing wesnoth, all 
at the same time). Or 'latency' problems. 
With my current setup, athlon64 3200, I have mopre problems with memory 
consumption than dropouts - to be honest, the harddisk has to be tortured 
pretty awfully to make amarok skip... more than it happens in normal, daily 
use.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Mark Knecht]

On 10/4/05, Karol Krizka <kkrizka@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been following the music with linux kernel thread and I started
> wondering what would be the best patchset for a desktop use. I have
> read the Gentoo Kernel Guide and from it seems to me that ck-sources
> are the best.
>
> What do you use on your desktop? Are there any other patches that you
> would recommend?  Is there any patches your would recommed for a
> laptop?
>

I think that it really depends on your needs. I'm very happy right now
with the very latest testing kernel from the developers. Basically

2.6.14-rc3 + rt7

However many others might not be. It was hard to find a configuration
that compiled. Once I did the side effects so far have been very
minimal. Then again my application is essentially recording studio
oriented. I need very low real time latencies. This kernel is giving
me that, but there are costs, such as no ATI driver support, etc.

So, I think it really depends on your needs.

As for ck-sources, it builds for me and it does run, but so farit
doesn't seem to play with the Jack server and Jack apps very well. I
expect it's me and not ck-sources, but I don't know.

So, my desktop usage is probably very different from yours and we end
up making different choices.

My 2 cents,
Mark

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Jared Lindsay]

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I really like nitro-sources. They aren't supported in any official way, but
you can find them in the Unsupported Software section on the Gentoo Forums.
The current release is 2.6.13.2-nitro1 ("Down with latency"), but I would
maybe advise waiting until nitro2 comes out (seppe, the maintainer, said it
would hopefully be soon), as it will fix a lagging issue with the ck5
patchset.

On 10/4/05, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/4/05, Karol Krizka <kkrizka@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have been following the music with linux kernel thread and I started
> > wondering what would be the best patchset for a desktop use. I have
> > read the Gentoo Kernel Guide and from it seems to me that ck-sources
> > are the best.
> >
> > What do you use on your desktop? Are there any other patches that you
> > would recommend? Is there any patches your would recommed for a
> > laptop?
> >
>
> I think that it really depends on your needs. I'm very happy right now
> with the very latest testing kernel from the developers. Basically
>
> 2.6.14-rc3 + rt7
>
> However many others might not be. It was hard to find a configuration
> that compiled. Once I did the side effects so far have been very
> minimal. Then again my application is essentially recording studio
> oriented. I need very low real time latencies. This kernel is giving
> me that, but there are costs, such as no ATI driver support, etc.
>
> So, I think it really depends on your needs.
>
> As for ck-sources, it builds for me and it does run, but so farit
> doesn't seem to play with the Jack server and Jack apps very well. I
> expect it's me and not ck-sources, but I don't know.
>
> So, my desktop usage is probably very different from yours and we end
> up making different choices.
>
> My 2 cents,
> Mark
>
> --
> gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Wednesday 05 October 2005 03:37, Jared Lindsay wrote:
> I really like nitro-sources. They aren't supported in any official way, but
> you can find them in the Unsupported Software section on the Gentoo Forums.
> The current release is 2.6.13.2-nitro1 ("Down with latency"), but I would
> maybe advise waiting until nitro2 comes out (seppe, the maintainer, said it
> would hopefully be soon), as it will fix a lagging issue with the ck5
> patchset.

nitro?
aren't that the ones who like to destroy filesystems?

btw - lower latency = lower throughput = lower overall performance.
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Mark Knecht]

On 10/4/05, Hemmann, Volker Armin <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 October 2005 03:37, Jared Lindsay wrote:
> > I really like nitro-sources. They aren't supported in any official way, but
> > you can find them in the Unsupported Software section on the Gentoo Forums.
> > The current release is 2.6.13.2-nitro1 ("Down with latency"), but I would
> > maybe advise waiting until nitro2 comes out (seppe, the maintainer, said it
> > would hopefully be soon), as it will fix a lagging issue with the ck5
> > patchset.
>
> nitro?
> aren't that the ones who like to destroy filesystems?
>
> btw - lower latency = lower throughput = lower overall performance.

lower latency = lower throughput == YES

lower throughput = lower overall performance == NOT NECESSARILY

It depends on how you measure performance. For me performance means
that real time audio, such as vocals from a singer, flow through the
machine without being delayed enough for the singer to hear the delay.
That's performance since without it the machine is useless.

Granted, I get fewer MIPS, etc., but the machine's performance, as I
measure it, is higher.

Cheers,
Mark

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Jared Lindsay]

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Eh? Like to destroy filesystems? Not sure what nitro you're talking about...

On 10/4/05, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 10/4/05, Hemmann, Volker Armin <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>
> wrote:
> > On Wednesday 05 October 2005 03:37, Jared Lindsay wrote:
> > > I really like nitro-sources. They aren't supported in any official
> way, but
> > > you can find them in the Unsupported Software section on the Gentoo
> Forums.
> > > The current release is 2.6.13.2-nitro1 ("Down with latency"), but I
> would
> > > maybe advise waiting until nitro2 comes out (seppe, the maintainer,
> said it
> > > would hopefully be soon), as it will fix a lagging issue with the ck5
> > > patchset.
> >
> > nitro?
> > aren't that the ones who like to destroy filesystems?
> >
> > btw - lower latency = lower throughput = lower overall performance.
>
> lower latency = lower throughput == YES
>
> lower throughput = lower overall performance == NOT NECESSARILY
>
> It depends on how you measure performance. For me performance means
> that real time audio, such as vocals from a singer, flow through the
> machine without being delayed enough for the singer to hear the delay.
> That's performance since without it the machine is useless.
>
> Granted, I get fewer MIPS, etc., but the machine's performance, as I
> measure it, is higher.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
> --
> gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Taka John Brunkhorst]

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I happy with vanilla-sources but gentoo-sources are good too.

--
antiwmac@gmail.com
Taka John Brunkhorst

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Wednesday 05 October 2005 05:40, Jared Lindsay wrote:
> Eh? Like to destroy filesystems? Not sure what nitro you're talking
> about...
>

I am not sure if it was nitro, love or any other of the 'forum kernels'.
But even if nitro was not the fs-damaging one,  why don't we ask ciaranm what 
he thinks about nitro:

>Try using a non-broken set of kernel sources.

well, that was pretty clear, but wait, there are more, like  this one:

>| This almost sounds like the start of a flame war.  Everyone has their
>| opinion and is entitled to it.

>Yes, but some of them (for example, anyone advocating love- or nitro-)
>are wrong.

or this little piece:

> | I'm using 2.6.9-nitro1 now.
> | anyone met with the same problem? How to solve it?
> 
> Stop using broken kernels.

You can find more by just typing 'ciaranm' and 'nitro' into the search engine 
of your choice.

Ok, it is only one voice of reason, but I never found a dev advocating 
nitro-sources - only forum-users.
And that should ring one or two bells.

Glück Auf
Volker

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Duncan]

Hemmann, Volker Armin posted
<200510050628.01257.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>, excerpted
below,  on Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:28:01 +0200:

> On Wednesday 05 October 2005 05:40, Jared Lindsay wrote:
>> Eh? Like to destroy filesystems? Not sure what nitro you're talking
>> about...
>>
>>
> I am not sure if it was nitro, love or any other of the 'forum kernels'.
> But even if nitro was not the fs-damaging one,  why don't we ask ciaranm
> what he thinks about nitro:
> 
>>Try using a non-broken set of kernel sources.
> 
> well, that was pretty clear[]

The following is my opinion, very frankly so, and my opinion only.  May it
not be misconstrued.

With all due respect, Ciaran, to put it in language similar to what he
uses, might be considered a "broken" developer, or at least a developer
with a "broken" people sense.

That is, of course, rather harsher than I'd normally put it, as despite
his weaknesses, I have a great deal of respect for him, because he
/always/ puts it as he sees it without mincing words, and because he tends
to insist on technical correctness, which has its place, where others are
often satisfied with "just works".

>From reading the dev list, I've noticed that with /great/ predictability,
/every/ post by ciaranm is a complaint or criticism.  Again, it's usually
technically correct, and in many cases, he's complaining because of the
difficulty somone's "just works" solution caused the sparc or mips team
(IDR which it is he uses, both?), but some seem to only tolerate him, as
he seems to only tolerate them.  IMO, a bit more "people sense" could be
of help, to put it mildly.  Not /every/ post being a complaint or
criticism would be nice, as well.  (I'm wary of using the term "every", as
I have here, because a single example breaks the assertion.  It's probably
not /every/ post in point of fact, but it's enough that as I said, with
/great/ predictability, I can be reading a post and say this sounds like
Ciaran, and I can check the author, and sure enough.  By the same token, I
can see ciaranm in the author field and predict even before opening the
post, what the general message will be.  If anyone can point to posts that
break this pattern, I'd be happy to see them.  Maybe it'll give me a
glimpse of a side of him I have yet to see!)

...

Taken with that sort of pre-filter in place, the mere fact that ciaranm
commented on nitro kernels is predictive of the contents of said comments.
Further, while his viewpoint is obvious (and predictable, if he bothers
to post it), it doesn't necessarily apply to every situation in which the
kernels might be put to use.  In particular, it wouldn't surprise me in
the least if he defined "broken" as used above, to mean that it didn't
work on his arch or application of choice, which may or may not have any
bearing on other archs or applications, where it may work just fine.

In summary, Ciaran /does/ usually tend to be technically correct, as
narrowly defined. For that I respect him.  However, while what he says
about a particular kernel should certainly be one factor in weighing
whether one is going to use it or not, it's certainly not the be-all and
end-all of definitive references to kernel suitability for one's
particular purpose, particularly if one's particular purpose isn't the
same and on the same arch as was Ciaran's when he tried it.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

Hi,

ok, coaranm aside - have you EVER seen a dev recommending love- or 
nitro-sources?

I have not! Never! Never ever!

There seems to be a reason that a) no dev has recommended them so far and b) 
they are not in portage.

And puulease.. nitro is nothing more than 
ck+bootsplash+someotherunneededstuff.

If you want the 'latency enhancement' of nitro, go directly to ck - Con 
Kolivas knows what he does.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Olivier Crete]

On Wed, 2005-05-10 at 19:26 +0200, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> ok, coaranm aside - have you EVER seen a dev recommending love- or 
> nitro-sources?
> 
> [...]
>
> If you want the 'latency enhancement' of nitro, go directly to ck - Con 
> Kolivas knows what he does.

The official party line from Gentoo/AMD64 is that if you use anything
else than gentoo-sources, you are on your own and your bug reports will
be ignored. vanilla-sources may be tolerated since gregkh&co seem to be
doing a good job on the 2.6.x.y series.

Using nitro or ck or love kernel may very well break your system and the
breakage may not be fixed by simply switching back to gentoo-sources
since it may break anything you have compiled or the content of your
hard disk. If you want to try any of those highly experimental features,
you are on your own. I would personally advise you pick only the
specific features you want and apply them to gentoo sources so you can
track down fast what breaks if you want to help debugging.

-- 
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer
x86 Security Liaison


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Wednesday 05 October 2005 20:01, Olivier Crete wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-05-10 at 19:26 +0200, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > ok, coaranm aside - have you EVER seen a dev recommending love- or
> > nitro-sources?
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > If you want the 'latency enhancement' of nitro, go directly to ck - Con
> > Kolivas knows what he does.
>
> The official party line from Gentoo/AMD64 is that if you use anything
> else than gentoo-sources, you are on your own and your bug reports will
> be ignored. vanilla-sources may be tolerated since gregkh&co seem to be
> doing a good job on the 2.6.x.y series.
>
> Using nitro or ck or love kernel may very well break your system and the
> breakage may not be fixed by simply switching back to gentoo-sources
> since it may break anything you have compiled or the content of your
> hard disk. If you want to try any of those highly experimental features,
> you are on your own. I would personally advise you pick only the
> specific features you want and apply them to gentoo sources so you can
> track down fast what breaks if you want to help debugging.

you are telling that the wrong guy - I always use gentoo - or vanilla-sources, 
because I remember very well the problems of people using nitro/love sources 
bach in 04.

Oh, and back in 2003/2004 I tried a lot of different kernels - and believe it 
or not: at the end, the less patched, the better were the kernels. So I 
stayed with gentoo or vanilla, because the rest was not better or faster, 
only more instabil.

I am pretty much healed from straying around ;)
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Duncan]

Hemmann, Volker Armin posted
<200510051926.49092.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>, excerpted
below,  on Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:26:49 +0200:

> ok, coaranm aside - have you EVER seen a dev recommending love- or
> nitro-sources?
> 
> I have not! Never! Never ever!
> 
> There seems to be a reason that a) no dev has recommended them so far and
> b) they are not in portage.

Actually, IIRC, love-sources was in portage back in the 2004.1 era.  (I'm
not positive on that as I developed the habit of downloading kernels
straight from kernel.org back on Mandrake, and saw no need to change that,
back when I switched to Gentoo around 2004.0/.1, but I'm quite certain I
saw love-sources discussed on the user list and in portage at the time.)

The reason love and others aren't (now) in portage now is that the Gentoo
kernel team decided to simplify what they were managing, as they prepared
to switch to 2.6 as the default.  Noting that GregKH, one of Linus'
"kernel lieutenants", is also a Gentoo (and SuSE, his paying job, IIRC)
kernel dev, this was  partly due to his encouragement and partly due to
the new upstream kernel policy with 2.6, encouraging people to fold their
patches back into the mainline kernels as quickly as possible, and doing
continuing development thru -mm, keeping it well synced with 2.6
mainline/linus, rather than starting a new 2.7 development branch.  

With 2.4 and the 2.5 development tree (and with previous stable/devel
splits), the stable kernel tended to stagnate to some degree, so many
patched branches grew up with various degrees of backporting of
development drivers, as well as other patches.  Distributions likewise
had their own kernels which differed often fairly substantially from
mainline (to the point RH folks, for instance, often couldn't switch to
non-RH kernels and continue to have a working system).  With 2.6, there's
much less need for that because the stable kernel doesn't get so out of
sync with the development kernel -- all the new drivers and fixes get into
stable relatively quickly.

So... now the Gentoo kernel tree, formerly containing a rather larger
kernel variety, now consists of only a few "main" kernels, including the
Gentoo kernel, with it's own set of fairly small but sometimes significant
patches, the vanilla/mainline/linus kernel, entirely unpatched, thus the
"vanilla", the -mm kernel, now substituting for what would have been the
development kernel in earlier incarnations, ck sources, for the
low-latency crowd, and a whole bunch of arch-specific stuff.  Love and
others have been phased out as not mainline enough to be worth the trouble
of continuing to maintain them, not necessarily due to any specific
deficiencies in the various upstream versions.

> And puulease.. nitro is nothing more than
> ck+bootsplash+someotherunneededstuff.
> 
> If you want the 'latency enhancement' of nitro, go directly to ck - Con
> Kolivas knows what he does.

I'd tend to agree, but some folks like the eye-candy of bootsplash, and
the like.  However, you make my point, that there's nothing necessarily
/wrong/ with nitro, just that the Gentoo kernel devs, in large part due to
GKH's influence (how many others are on the kernel team besides him,
anyway?), have decided their time would be better spent less split on
multiple "unnecessary" kernel variants.  (I happen to agree with the
general kernel policy and GKH on this, BTW.)

As to Gentoo devs' recommendations, would /you/ recommend other
non-portage packages in public, knowing that if you did, you'd end up
being quoted, perhaps out of context, and ultimately either expected by
some users taking you up on the recommendation to support it, or bad
mouthing you for failing to do so?  They recommend kernel versions that
have packages existing in portage for one big reason:  as with other
packages in portage, there's an existing Gentoo support infrastructure if
something goes wrong.  It's the "safe" recommendation, one they can make
without being expected to provide the support or being blamed for failure
to do so, personally.

That isn't to say that there might not be /other/ reasons, possibly some
rather significant ones, why various sources aren't recommended or in
portage, but just the fact that they aren't, doesn't mean there's
something hugely wrong with them, either.  It's certainly a factor that
can and should be considered, but I'd call it a pretty small one in the
scale of things.  If there are significant reasons why another kernel
might be better, and one realizes the fact that the kernel DOES contain
stuff like file systems and hardware drivers that if they go wrong, could
cause SERIOUS damage to an existing installation and is prepared to deal
with unlikely possibility should it occur, then certainly, I'd call the
mere fact of whether that particular kernel can be had from portage or
must be downloaded from the particular kernel hacker's internet site, of
little consequence.

The open source community is a community where reputation is the currency
of exchange.  I'm just saying that there are other factors in the
valuation of that reputation that are more important than portage tree
inclusion, or direct public recommendation by Gentoo devs.  By all means,
check out the reputation of the particular kernel hacker who's kernels you
are investigating, before simply randomly deciding to run it.  However,
that reputation comes from more than Gentoo devs and portage, which, in
the overall scheme of things, play a rather small part in the communtiy
recognition of a kernel hacker and their particular expertise in selecting
and maintaining a particular group of patches.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Jared Lindsay]

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Yep, nitro is "only" ck + bootsplash + some other stuff. And guess what?
That's why I use it, and not ck! I have never had any problems with it, and
I find it to be a better patchset than gentoo-sources. I only wish it was
updated more often, but the maintainer is pretty busy right now.

And I don't care a whole lot that nitro is unsupported. The dev I asked on
the issue simply said they don't want to have to provide support for tons of
kernel patchsets, which I agree they shouldn't have to do. I have also found
that a lot of naysayers haven't even used nitro, or only used a much older
version, which makes me skeptical.

On 10/5/05, Hemmann, Volker Armin <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> ok, coaranm aside - have you EVER seen a dev recommending love- or
> nitro-sources?
>
> I have not! Never! Never ever!
>
> There seems to be a reason that a) no dev has recommended them so far and
> b)
> they are not in portage.
>
> And puulease.. nitro is nothing more than
> ck+bootsplash+someotherunneededstuff.
>
> If you want the 'latency enhancement' of nitro, go directly to ck - Con
> Kolivas knows what he does.
> --
> gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Duncan]

Jared Lindsay posted
<e16d914c0510051454w33e6c194i691811cf5a77168@mail.gmail.com>, excerpted
below,  on Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:54:38 -0700:

> <br>
> And I don't care a whole lot that nitro is unsupported.&nbsp; The dev I
> asked on the issue simply said they don't want to have to provide
> support for tons of kernel patchsets, which I agree they shouldn't have
> to do.&nbsp;

That's what I've been saying...  The devs have their own packages to worry
about, and GKH has the kernels still there plus being the head driver guy
on the mainline kernel, plus his SuSE stuff (his paying job), and all the
other stuff (stable-line patchset, udev, a bunch of other single-shot
stuff  he volunteers for) he does around the kernel, to worry about.  The
last thing they need to worry about is a bunch of kernel guys'
ever-changing patchsets, where they aren't judged mainline kernel worthy
just yet.

(BTW, could you please set your client, gmail it would appear, to not emit
HTML in posts to the list?  Gentoo doesn't seem as strict about it as many
community lists do, but many consider HTML mail the domain of crackers and
spammers, believing if someone has to use HTML, the real content can't be
worth one's time to read in the first place, and therefore killfile it, as
I do on my mail client.  The only reason I see your message here is
because I'm reading the list as a newsgroup, on gmane, not as mail.)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Thursday 06 October 2005 07:19, Duncan wrote:
> Jared Lindsay posted
> <e16d914c0510051454w33e6c194i691811cf5a77168@mail.gmail.com>, excerpted
>
> below,  on Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:54:38 -0700:
> > <br>
> > And I don't care a whole lot that nitro is unsupported.&nbsp; The dev I
> > asked on the issue simply said they don't want to have to provide
> > support for tons of kernel patchsets, which I agree they shouldn't have
> > to do.&nbsp;
>
> That's what I've been saying...  The devs have their own packages to worry
> about, and GKH has the kernels still there plus being the head driver guy
> on the mainline kernel, plus his SuSE stuff (his paying job), and all the
> other stuff (stable-line patchset, udev, a bunch of other single-shot
> stuff  he volunteers for) he does around the kernel, to worry about.  The
> last thing they need to worry about is a bunch of kernel guys'
> ever-changing patchsets, where they aren't judged mainline kernel worthy
> just yet.

he does not have to worry about udev anymore ;)

>
> (BTW, could you please set your client, gmail it would appear, to not emit
> HTML in posts to the list?  Gentoo doesn't seem as strict about it as many
> community lists do, but many consider HTML mail the domain of crackers and
> spammers, believing if someone has to use HTML, the real content can't be
> worth one's time to read in the first place, and therefore killfile it, as
> I do on my mail client.  The only reason I see your message here is
> because I'm reading the list as a newsgroup, on gmane, not as mail.)
>

well, he sent it as textmail and htmlmail, so everybody can choose, what 
he/she wants to see.. at least kmail says so, and displayed the text-part.
If you hadn't mentioned it - I would not have seen it...

but in this point, I am inclined to agree... html-mails are usually seen as 
awaste of bandwidth ;)
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Duncan]

Hemmann, Volker Armin posted
<200510060853.56722.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>, excerpted
below,  on Thu, 06 Oct 2005 08:53:56 +0200:

> [Greg KH] does not have to worry about udev anymore ;)

??

You aren't perhaps getting udev and devfs mixed up?  devfs was the 2.4
in-kernel stuff, not very flexible and with other issues so now dropped. 
udev is the 2.6 tech, to my knowledge very much alive, and GKH still very
much a *BIG* backer!  (He was the big push both behind the advance of
udev, and the drop of devfs, bringing up the devfs drop when udev was in,
being told it needed to stay in for at least a year, bringing it up,
apparently with very great pleasure, a year later, having it deactivated
but the code still there for a time, then bringing it up another couple
releases later to have the devfs code entirely removed from the kernel. 
That he was made "kernel lieutenant for devices" was in large part
because it seemed natural due to the fact he was dealing with them thru
udev anyway.)

If that's changed, /please/ point me to a reference!  I must have dropped
out of the loop somewhere!

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Marco Matthies]

Duncan wrote:
> If that's changed, /please/ point me to a reference!  I must have dropped
> out of the loop somewhere!

Kay Sievers is now udev maintainer:
http://kerneltrap.org/node/5669

Cheers,
Marco
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Re: Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Duncan]

Marco Matthies posted <43455257.4000804@gmx.net>, excerpted below,  on
Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:35:35 +0200:

> Duncan wrote:
>> If that's changed, /please/ point me to a reference!  I must have dropped
>> out of the loop somewhere!
> 
> Kay Sievers is now udev maintainer:
> http://kerneltrap.org/node/5669

Cool, thanks!  Kay has actually been around as one of the UDEV
co-developers since well before the OLS 2003 paper on UDEV, as I remember
references to him as one of the co-developers from it, and the
announcement says Greg will continue to be around and help out, just not
as UDEV lead.  Thus, it wouldn't appear to be a big change, just a
shuffling of the chairs a bit, likely because as I mentioned, Greg has
quite a bit of other stuff on his plate, now.

So... now that I know it happened (thanks again), I've no issues with it.
(Not that me having issues with it would be of any significance anyway,
but...)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Jared Lindsay]

On 10/5/05, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
> (BTW, could you please set your client, gmail it would appear, to not emit
> HTML in posts to the list?  Gentoo doesn't seem as strict about it as many
> community lists do, but many consider HTML mail the domain of crackers and
> spammers, believing if someone has to use HTML, the real content can't be
> worth one's time to read in the first place, and therefore killfile it, as
> I do on my mail client.  The only reason I see your message here is
> because I'm reading the list as a newsgroup, on gmane, not as mail.)
>

Sorry, I didn't realize I was sending in HTML.  I don't see any way to
permanently make the change, so I will have to remember to always
output in plain text for this mailing list.

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Duncan]

Jared Lindsay posted
<e16d914c0510061359q53fb4f3bib703489075f1fc33@mail.gmail.com>, excerpted
below,  on Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:59:54 -0700:

> Sorry, I didn't realize I was sending in HTML.  I don't see any way to
> permanently make the change, so I will have to remember to always output
> in plain text for this mailing list.

Thanks.  Often folks don't realize it.  Maybe it's a feature you could ask
Google to add?  I know even MSOE had a checkbox beside individual
addresses to send plain-text only to them, as well as an overall
plain-text only option.  I've never been much for webmail, however, so I'm
not sure what the usual options are, there.  One would think open-source
community friendly Google would have that sort of option, but maybe enough
folks haven't asked?

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Tres Melton]

On Thu, 2005-10-06 at 13:59 -0700, Jared Lindsay wrote:
> On 10/5/05, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I didn't realize I was sending in HTML.  I don't see any way to
> permanently make the change, so I will have to remember to always
> output in plain text for this mailing list.
> 
New to open-source mailing lists?  Most of them have people that hate
HTML mail (me for one) and thus it is pretty much standard to say no.
This actually becomes really important when you start sending patches in
the email has HTML usually screws them up.

-- 
Tres Melton
IRC & Gentoo: RiverRat

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Best Desktop Patchset for kernel

[Billy Holmes]

Karol Krizka wrote:
> read the Gentoo Kernel Guide and from it seems to me that ck-sources
> are the best.

I use ck-sources, but from the rc-releases (patched myself) for my 
desktop as I like to test things, and I use ck-sources (server) on the 
office terminal server.

I like ck-sources because it was the only one that supported cfq for 
awhile there until it made it into mainline. It was the first 
i386/x86_64 kernel to support IO-nice levels (a task with a nice level 
also has it's read IO niced).

Now, Con has been working on swap pre-fetching, which basically reads 
back your swap into memory, but in a state where it can be discarded 
freely if the machine needs it. If a swapped app is used, then it's 
already tagged in memory and then just gets removed from swap. This 
leads to a 5 fold increase in using say, Firefox once it has been 
swapped out.

ck-sources also implements SCHED_ISO which is basically RealTime, but 
with a cap on CPU usage. People like it, because it just works "out of 
the box". There is also SCHED_BATCH which gives longer timeslices to 
processes with this schedule at the cost of interactivity, as well as 
basically giving it a nice of +19. Very useful for compiles, things like 
Seti, or even emerge syncs.

Not to mention things like the hardmapped and mapped tunables in the 
/proc filesystem which give you more control over memory usage for your 
desktop system. Don't forget the compute and interactive tunables that 
help you control how processes get scheduled.
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