From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3071F13838B for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 20:24:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9FAB5E096D; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 20:24:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA74BE0870 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 20:24:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XWAAA-0002o6-0z for gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 22:24:46 +0200 Received: from ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net ([68.231.22.224]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 22:24:46 +0200 Received: from 1i5t5.duncan by ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 22:24:46 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> Subject: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Boycott Systemd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 20:24:33 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20140921132548.d4ad54724473a2aeee688daa@comcast.net> <20140921143059.c3c16dfdeab6f65280b7caa6@comcast.net> <20140921192043.GA9652@crud> <20140921171301.5f008b3bd12c21c2f8fdd67e@comcast.net> <20140921202600.08d082d88014228172007477@comcast.net> <20140922175846.GA22399@crud> <20140922144114.3f89cd00fc13ce4a06515bce@comcast.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-231-22-224.ph.ph.cox.net User-Agent: Pan/0.140 (Chocolate Salty Balls; GIT d447f7c /m/p/portage/src/egit-src/pan2) X-Archives-Salt: a4c84ba3-63a4-4181-9905-2146d342b1dc X-Archives-Hash: 2ea3cbb526ba7461d4e579040e4f014b Frank Peters posted on Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:41:14 -0400 as excerpted: > Good design is highly flexible and configurable with little assumption > made on the nature or needs of the user. > > Let's consider a simple program to display digital images. A good > program design will not only contain built-in routines to accommodate > the standard image formats but will also provide non-specific raster > buffers to allow a user to view unconventional or even non-existent > formats. A good program design will also make no assumptions about the > nature of the image data but rather allow the user to create any needed > specifications. A professional program thus allows both standard > conventions but keeps the overall capability unrestricted and open > ended. > > As best as I can understand (I am not an expert in systems programming) > under Torvalds the Linux OS conforms to such professional design goals. /The/ Linux OS? There is no such single entity. There is /the/ Linux kernel. There are all sorts of OSs designed and deployed for all sorts of different usage, using that kernel. Linus controls the kernel, and had a hand in developing a few relatively insignificant userspace bits that run on that kernel and some subset of available userspace OS platforms, but he doesn't control userspace, and AFAIK, has no interest in doing so. By raw number of deployments out there "The Linux OS" would have to refer to Android. But systemd isn't part of the Android Linux OS/platform, nor does Android have much to do with the gentoo of the list on which this discussion is taking place, so that doesn't make sense in the context of this thread. In the context of this thread, one might make an educated guess that what you refer to as "The Linux OS" would be what is technically known as GNU/Linux, the GNU libc and various development tools, etc, that run on top of it and the Linux kernel, and on which most common Linux distributions other than android, including gentoo, base themselves. And while individual bits of that platform may have happened to conform to your description in the past, there's no reason other bits included in the most common implementations of that platform in the future have to continue to do so. That's fine, however, as it's all FLOSS, and devs and users are free to develop and use what works for them best, forking off of the most common solution where they find it worth their while to do so. If /enough/ people do so, then the most common solution will switch to a different one as a result. Which at a slightly different level is what we've already seen happen with Android. Enough people found it useful that it's now the most common, rather more so than GNU/Linux. But the same GNU/Linux ecosystem and its many variants that was around before, still continues to exist, as enough people with the skills to continue to continue development, continue to find it useful enough to do just that, continue development. Which is exactly the situation non-systemd GNU/Linux looks to be headed for as well. The systemd variant appears to be fast becoming the most common, but at least at this point, there's enough interest in the continued existence and development of non-systemd variants, that they continue to exist and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future, as well. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman