From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([69.77.167.62] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K2Mky-0004Up-9w for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 31 May 2008 08:48:08 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AD02CE03F6; Sat, 31 May 2008 08:48:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.182]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E032E03F6 for ; Sat, 31 May 2008 08:48:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id m34so102100wag.10 for ; Sat, 31 May 2008 01:48:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=tMeeRpGpp+OL1GACthjoaoGa4SqWnT7YUIXAiEzUYwk=; b=BPU9BEpvJ7l0tCMafcN34FLs0MQ1eOe4WcOBwCEIHAuCQoxv8eoPg5z8F4xgsrgD/GkSDdSFKFp0P//7C1QhUmdl2ByO4105fmPYd+1u1YFaOJCuOaJ9lrs6dQll2QIBIgEiaaLzC5bJvlEP5dgNCS7b5XwrGoceHWVUrsG4KZs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=CtMwUu0+urk766f17Fyi2Xf9mNUrOQG5EG4tCMiDal2h166v723c9hH7uBDPChgURL9Oq+pqMUj/qYPmxgZyGtxp79lfvzV/eqA7RQoDIBAP/+d3MKyzIzLpNgN1N81ApdP97k/eONHD4ojmqpgIxuZUNIYRnn2wvETBHto0I24= Received: by 10.115.91.11 with SMTP id t11mr837566wal.41.1212223685900; Sat, 31 May 2008 01:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.88.8 with HTTP; Sat, 31 May 2008 01:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 08:48:05 +0000 From: Beso To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: KDE 4.0.4 upgrade, sort of. In-Reply-To: <4840B4B4.1000508@gentoo.org> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_29243_8017791.1212223685892" References: <483D3324.3030709@ercbroadband.org> <200805302310.01222.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> <200805302216.42950.levertond@googlemail.com> <200805310017.55820.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> <4840B4B4.1000508@gentoo.org> X-Archives-Salt: 46b4589f-33c2-401b-852b-ea2e3296413e X-Archives-Hash: 03d77fb53481e9c29646f7afd336aa0a ------=_Part_29243_8017791.1212223685892 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 2008/5/31 Richard Freeman : > Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: > >> So, in my opinion, you are just a pro-paludis troll. >> >> And from what I can see, trolls are the prefered audience and power behind >> paludis. >> > > Guys - let's try to keep this civil! > > There are lots of folks who use and like paludis who aren't trolls. I'm > among them. The main thing I like is that the dependency management tends > to work better than portage (or at least better than how portage used to > work). It also has better native support for overlays, and it is a bit more > actively developed. It also seems much faster to me - or at least it used > to be (actually - I use portage so infrequently these days that it seems to > take forever just to regenerate its various caches when I do use it - > perhaps if I used emerge --sync that might behave differently). > that's exactly the point. as i've already said on new system portage is quite flawly, while paludis is less flawly with deps. and the overlays handling and the possibility to continue builds if packages fails on various conditions is not a bad addition. if you emerge sync and update portage repository you'll just need a paludis --regenerate-installable-cache and you're ok. also you'll just have to remember to regenerate the installed cache whenever you install something with portage. > On the other hand, I do understand the attitude issues associated with some > of the key developers and as pointed out in the FAQ quote it tends to show. > I'm not sure I'd actively evangelize for its use as a result. > sometimes they have somem technical points out there but have an impulsive character. well, if they were in a development company they could have not been scolded since their work as devs isn't bad. The main thing I had feared with paludis is that at some point a need for a > particular feature will come along and it will be determined that real men > don't need that feature and I'll be stuck (while every other package manager > out there ends up supporting it). While this still concerns me it generally > hasn't happened to date, and I'm less concerned about it. However, if it > does happen getting my keywords migrated back to portage format will end up > being a minor headache... > > My recommendation is to look into paludis - and feel free to try it out. > Be aware of its advantages and limitations. Then make the appropriate > decision. As Duncan pointed out it isn't an ideal package manager if you > use binary packages frequently. i could say that for users as duncan, with need of binpkg and with a minor number of overlays paludis is not very good and in fact is indicated for people who reboot oftenly (like ati notebooks users which don't have a really good standby or suspend) and update world frequently and people who have a big deal of repos usually more than 2 repos should be good to go with paludis -- dott. ing. beso ------=_Part_29243_8017791.1212223685892 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
2008/5/31 Richard Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>:
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote:
So, in my opinion, you are just a pro-paludis troll.

And from what I can see, trolls are the prefered audience and power behind paludis.

Guys - let's try to keep this civil!

There are lots of folks who use and like paludis who aren't trolls.  I'm among them.  The main thing I like is that the dependency management tends to work better than portage (or at least better than how portage used to work).  It also has better native support for overlays, and it is a bit more actively developed.  It also seems much faster to me - or at least it used to be (actually - I use portage so infrequently these days that it seems to take forever just to regenerate its various caches when I do use it - perhaps if I used emerge --sync that might behave differently).

that's exactly the point. as i've already said on new system portage is quite flawly, while paludis is less flawly with deps. and the overlays handling and the possibility to continue builds if packages fails on various conditions is not a bad addition. if you emerge sync and update portage repository you'll just need a paludis --regenerate-installable-cache and you're ok. also you'll just have to remember to regenerate the installed cache whenever you install something with portage.
 
On the other hand, I do understand the attitude issues associated with some of the key developers and as pointed out in the FAQ quote it tends to show.  I'm not sure I'd actively evangelize for its use as a result.

sometimes they have somem technical points out there but have an impulsive character. well, if they were in a development company they could have not been scolded since their work as devs isn't bad.

The main thing I had feared with paludis is that at some point a need for a particular feature will come along and it will be determined that real men don't need that feature and I'll be stuck (while every other package manager out there ends up supporting it).  While this still concerns me it generally hasn't happened to date, and I'm less concerned about it.  However, if it does happen getting my keywords migrated back to portage format will end up being a minor headache...

My recommendation is to look into paludis - and feel free to try it out.  Be aware of its advantages and limitations.  Then make the appropriate decision.  As Duncan pointed out it isn't an ideal package manager if you use binary packages frequently.

i could say that for users as duncan, with need of binpkg and with a minor number of overlays paludis is not very good and in fact is indicated for people who reboot oftenly (like ati notebooks users which don't have a really good standby or suspend) and update world frequently and people who have a big deal of repos usually more than 2 repos should be good to go with paludis



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