From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA45E13838B for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:31:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 80387E0AF5; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:31:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-f177.google.com (mail-ie0-f177.google.com [209.85.223.177]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC947E0AB9 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:31:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f177.google.com with SMTP id x19so8795884ier.22 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:31:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Pw+xlVXlRIVd4V58GIqctHH+PYx15NzErf+FVW8PzIM=; b=CXTbypCsGeMdslBuqRd0Xl7OWomscre5mSiid/EwZh7Rj1pAfir/3VQvwOYLUwBz/A 92Hi09jWPX/Z/T5tRo6lLDHMrMC4JWRxA5vxXM3BhvNEa1xoorco1j1hy8w+jEc5ExbT kLsZCcm8szdPRReT1/5mC4Pu5otlQNlieDD7X8hj4UFRKTUIW/lV0IEXHH/Yy0FVrLNT 99AzMD6YBs1hXg+c2F+UIo6vyyYJSM4Um7+Yr0cCylcklkelF108ZA95+JUOhCOOEJoG YQU4YW31xr4m0WDuo72JW23y8mjwc47jOVHEbZmBrWEM5o6+MSw0GD+MLjMPHHeouMQC WZsg== X-Received: by 10.50.4.9 with SMTP id g9mr699009igg.42.1411453911598; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.11.141 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:31:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140923014920.5fba42da1085fdb5305e9ea4@comcast.net> References: <20140921192043.GA9652@crud> <20140921171301.5f008b3bd12c21c2f8fdd67e@comcast.net> <20140921202600.08d082d88014228172007477@comcast.net> <20140922175846.GA22399@crud> <5420EE55.1000301@nagafix.co.uk> <20140923043207.GA31187@crud> <20140923014920.5fba42da1085fdb5305e9ea4@comcast.net> From: =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw6lz?= Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 01:31:31 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Boycott Systemd To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archives-Salt: ad7d4a20-d681-4e3a-90dc-3ed2c2a99d8c X-Archives-Hash: 9875a948d2e65e9490b63b692258aeea On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Frank Peters w= rote: > On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:48:46 -0500 > Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s wrote: > >> >> I just said that this thread has *seriously* lacked on technical >> arguments. I haven't made almost any technical argument, because >> basically all the discussion has been around conspiracy theories >> ... >> *You* call *that* "a reasonable discussion of technical issues"? >> > > Any *good* programmer realizes that programming is not at all > about writing code. The foremost tasks of a good programmer > are problem analysis, planning, and understanding both the overall > scheme and ramifications of any proposed solution. Once these > tasks are accomplished the actual coding, which is a relatively > trivial matter, can begin. http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/systemd.html You may not agree with the points presented there, but there was *ample* "analysis, planning, and understanding of the overall scheme and ramifications" of the "proposed solution" (systemd in this case) before a single line of core was written. And then they also wrote the code. > Therefore it is not unreasonable or unproductive to approach > the systemd issue from a political or philosophical perspective. I will just answer: code talks. > But having said that, I will admit that this thread has served > its purpose for me. My concerns about systemd have been addressed > and my fears have been calmed by the responses. I want to thank > all those who participated. You are welcome. > However, I do remain cautiously optimistic. Anyone who understands > the human world knows all too well that idealistic causes do not > persist for long. I am sometimes surprised at the longevity of > Linux as a free and open project, but I realize that in time it too shall > succumb to the social forces that have destroyed similar endeavors. > I can only hope that the time will be long in coming. Again, code talks. And Linux is not idealistic at all; I believe Linus and his lieutenants would laugh at the notion that it is. Linux is a technological triumph, created, maintained and evolved by highly technically qualified people. Idealism had nothing to do with it; contrary to GNU/Hurd, the GPL-2 license was chosen because it was the best choice for technical reasons (highly collaborative project over the Internet). And because idealism has nothing to do with it, it didn't switched over to GPL-3. Regards. --=20 Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias Universidad Nacional Aut=C3=B3noma de M=C3=A9xico