From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD40A138247 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2014 12:34:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 36112E08BA; Wed, 8 Oct 2014 12:34:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from atl.turmel.org (atl.turmel.org [74.117.157.138]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CCE3E08B5 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2014 12:34:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [108.243.25.188] (helo=[192.168.2.61]) by atl.turmel.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1XbqRX-00007s-Nb for gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2014 08:34:11 -0400 Message-ID: <54352F42.6080608@turmel.org> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 08:34:10 -0400 From: Phil Turmel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Boycott Systemd References: <20140923105558.eaed8b57d00ddd92818cec55@comcast.net> <20140924125822.d8e095ebc723398a31190a00@comcast.net> <20141007204358.GA29518@crud> <543452F8.4010507@gmail.com> <20141007211907.GA31440@crud> <20141007211550.9c25a3ca13e7b989dfaec325@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 7a3db176-61da-4034-a032-d3e4dc47c4d8 X-Archives-Hash: 68269a24a6e3ce863530ecc39428b7ed On 10/07/2014 11:19 PM, Harry Holt wrote: > On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: >> You're basically arguing that if somebody putting together an OS has a >> working solution for something, they should spend just as much effort >> maintaining 3 other solutions for that something, and ensure that none >> of the solutions becomes any better than the others. OpenRC and >> Portage should work just as well with only csh installed as it does >> with bash installed, etc. >> > > No. Just no. If somebody is putting together an OS, they maintain the > interfaces / APIs that applications on top would use. That's all. If one > solution for, say, package managers or daemon startup works better than > another, so be it. It's not the responsibility of the Kernel / OS > developer, unless some application reveals a bug that others do not. Other > than that, pick the package manager / initializer / etc. that works best > for YOU. > >> >> That just isn't realistic. > > > The above scenario is ABSOLUTELY realistic, and the way it should work. > The straw man you've created above, not so much. But it's just a straw man. You may think its absolutely realistic, but the market doesn't agree with you. Red Hat, SUSE, Canonical, et al call their products *distributions*, not *operating systems* because their customers don't want to create their own solutions. They want a collection of software pieces--kernel, libraries, applications--that solve their (end-user) problems. >> Most distros would rather support 47 >> features that users want, and not 3 features implemented 5 different >> ways each in a manner that is completely interchangeable. If a distro >> did things the way you wanted, very few would bother to use it, and >> likely fewer would bother to maintain it. Precisely. > But isn't that the point of Gentoo in the first place? You're selecting > packages for various functions that are typically source compatible, and > you compile them yourself. How many text editors can you choose from? How > many cron implementations? How many development languages and libraries? > How many email servers and clients? What would happen if the maintainers > decided Gentoo should only support one desktop environment, one shell, one > option for everything? Would emacs users look elsewhere because only VI is > available in Portage? I suspect so. > > The beauty of Gentoo is that even options not available from official > sources can be integrated with either an overlay, your own ebuild, or even > just building from source. But Gentoo is still a *distro*, not just an operating system. And it is less commercial than most, relying on volunteers to code "useful" stuff. There's coding going on, and a lot of whining going on. It's easy to see who's credible. >> Nothing is preventing you from starting a "Foundation for Redundant >> Solutions" - with the express aim of maintaining all the stuff nobody >> uses any longer. I can't imagine you'll get a lot of donations - even >> if people might agree with you philosophically at some level, they're >> going to want to spend their money investing in stuff they actually >> use. Thank you, Rich. This is perfect. Phil