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* [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
@ 2009-12-02 15:42 alain.didierjean
  2009-12-02 16:03 ` Richard Freeman
                   ` (12 more replies)
  0 siblings, 13 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: alain.didierjean @ 2009-12-02 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the package to
which they belong. Help welcome...




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
@ 2009-12-02 16:03 ` Richard Freeman
  2009-12-02 16:04 ` Alex Alexander
                   ` (11 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Richard Freeman @ 2009-12-02 16:03 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...

dosfstools

Maybe we should get flameeyes to re-implement portage file search since 
he's already building everything for the tinderbox anyway...  :)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
  2009-12-02 16:03 ` Richard Freeman
@ 2009-12-02 16:04 ` Alex Alexander
  2009-12-02 16:07 ` Carsten Hajunga
                   ` (10 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Alex Alexander @ 2009-12-02 16:04 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

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On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 04:42:17PM +0100, alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...

sys-fs/dosfstools

:)

-- 
Alex Alexander :: wired
Gentoo Developer
www.linuxized.com

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
  2009-12-02 16:03 ` Richard Freeman
  2009-12-02 16:04 ` Alex Alexander
@ 2009-12-02 16:07 ` Carsten Hajunga
  2009-12-02 16:26 ` Jesús Guerrero
                   ` (9 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Hajunga @ 2009-12-02 16:07 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

sys-fs/dosfstools

Am Mittwoch, 2. Dezember 2009 16:42:17 schrieb alain.didierjean@free.fr:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the
>  package to which they belong. Help welcome...
> 



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-02 16:07 ` Carsten Hajunga
@ 2009-12-02 16:26 ` Jesús Guerrero
  2009-12-02 16:30 ` [gentoo-amd64] " Nikos Chantziaras
                   ` (8 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Jesús Guerrero @ 2009-12-02 16:26 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:42:17 +0100, alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the
> package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...

sys-fs/dosfstools

-- 
Jesús Guerrero



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-02 16:26 ` Jesús Guerrero
@ 2009-12-02 16:30 ` Nikos Chantziaras
  2009-12-02 17:08 ` [gentoo-amd64] " Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas
                   ` (7 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Nikos Chantziaras @ 2009-12-02 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On 12/02/2009 05:42 PM, alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...

sys-fs/dosfstools




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (4 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-02 16:30 ` [gentoo-amd64] " Nikos Chantziaras
@ 2009-12-02 17:08 ` Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas
  2009-12-02 17:09 ` zuboskal 14
                   ` (6 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas @ 2009-12-02 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

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Hi,

I think it should be sys-fs/dosfstools.

Regards,
-- 
Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas
Control and Automation Engineer
Gentoo Foundation Member

Em Quarta-feira 02 Dezembro 2009, às 13:42:17, alain.didierjean@free.fr escreveu:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...
> 
> 
> 

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (5 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-02 17:08 ` [gentoo-amd64] " Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas
@ 2009-12-02 17:09 ` zuboskal 14
  2009-12-02 17:15 ` Josh Sled
                   ` (5 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: zuboskal 14 @ 2009-12-02 17:09 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

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sys-fs/dosfstools

2009/12/2 <alain.didierjean@free.fr>

> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the
> package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...
>
>
>


-- 
brgds

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (6 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-02 17:09 ` zuboskal 14
@ 2009-12-02 17:15 ` Josh Sled
  2009-12-02 17:49 ` Japan Man
                   ` (4 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Josh Sled @ 2009-12-02 17:15 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: alain.didierjean; +Cc: gentoo-amd64

alain.didierjean@free.fr writes:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...

jsled@phoenix [~]$ eix -S vfat
* sys-fs/dosfstools
     Available versions:  3.0.1!t ~3.0.2!t ~3.0.5!t
     Homepage:            http://www.daniel-baumann.ch/software/dosfstools/
     Description:         DOS filesystem tools - provides mkdosfs, mkfs.msdos, mkfs.vfat

-- 
...jsled
http://asynchronous.org/ - a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (7 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-02 17:15 ` Josh Sled
@ 2009-12-02 17:49 ` Japan Man
  2009-12-02 18:50   ` Barry Schwartz
  2009-12-02 18:04 ` Marko Obrovac
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Japan Man @ 2009-12-02 17:49 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

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On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:42 AM, <alain.didierjean@free.fr> wrote:

> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the
> package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...
>
>
>
i believe dosfstools




# equery belongs mkfs.vfat
 * Searching for mkfs.vfat ...
sys-fs/dosfstools-3.0.5 (/usr/sbin/mkfs.vfat -> mkdosfs)


dosfstools it is.

-- 
aim: cyst23  <-- this is utter bullshit
skype: anosumo
email: anorexicsumo@gmail.com

Cotton candy, sweet and low, let me see that tootsie roll

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* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (8 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-02 17:49 ` Japan Man
@ 2009-12-02 18:04 ` Marko Obrovac
  2009-12-02 20:38 ` Justin
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Marko Obrovac @ 2009-12-02 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

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Seems like you're looking for sys-fs/dosfstools

Homepage:    http://www.daniel-baumann.ch/software/dosfstools/
Description:   DOS filesystem tools - provides mkdosfs, mkfs.msdos,
mkfs.vfat

Cheers,

Marko Obrovac
http://www.linkedin.com/in/doorman


2009/12/2 <alain.didierjean@free.fr>

> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the
> package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...
>
>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 17:49 ` Japan Man
@ 2009-12-02 18:50   ` Barry Schwartz
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Barry Schwartz @ 2009-12-02 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

How to fish:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=ALL+mkfs.vfat
http://www.google.com/search?q=site:gentoo.org+fsck.vfat

:)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (9 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-02 18:04 ` Marko Obrovac
@ 2009-12-02 20:38 ` Justin
  2009-12-03  7:31 ` Juan Fco. Giordana
  2009-12-03 12:05 ` [gentoo-amd64] " Justin
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Justin @ 2009-12-02 20:38 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

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alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...
> 
> 


sys-fs/dosfstools

To find that out you can use e-file from app-portage/pfl or search
directly at http://www.portagefilelist.de/index.php/Special:PFLQuery2


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (10 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-02 20:38 ` Justin
@ 2009-12-03  7:31 ` Juan Fco. Giordana
  2009-12-03 21:46   ` [gentoo-amd64] " Duncan
  2009-12-03 12:05 ` [gentoo-amd64] " Justin
  12 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Juan Fco. Giordana @ 2009-12-03  7:31 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...


sys-fs/dosfstools :P



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
                   ` (11 preceding siblings ...)
  2009-12-03  7:31 ` Juan Fco. Giordana
@ 2009-12-03 12:05 ` Justin
  12 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Justin @ 2009-12-03 12:05 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

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alain.didierjean@free.fr schrieb:
> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the package to
> which they belong. Help welcome...
> 
> 

I got one more:

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=gentoo+mkfs.vfat+fsck.vfat+tools

;) , don't cry, I just love this page!


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-03  7:31 ` Juan Fco. Giordana
@ 2009-12-03 21:46   ` Duncan
  2009-12-03 22:39     ` Nikos Chantziaras
  2009-12-04  2:36     ` Barry Schwartz
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Duncan @ 2009-12-03 21:46 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Juan Fco. Giordana posted on Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:31:01 +0000 as excerpted:

> alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
>> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the
>> package to which they belong. Help welcome...
> 
> 
> sys-fs/dosfstools :P

LOL.  Didn't know we had that many list readers!

(FWIW, I format everything reiserfs or ext2/3/4, here, and haven't used 
fat, at least not to the degree I'd need to fsck or mkfs it, if someone 
not on Linux needs a file, it goes by net and they download it to their 
own fs, since my Mandrake days at least (I switched to Gentoo in early 
2004), so was perhaps one of the few here that did /not/ know what 
package those utilities were in.)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-03 21:46   ` [gentoo-amd64] " Duncan
@ 2009-12-03 22:39     ` Nikos Chantziaras
  2009-12-04  0:26       ` Josh Sled
  2009-12-04  2:36     ` Barry Schwartz
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Nikos Chantziaras @ 2009-12-03 22:39 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On 12/03/2009 11:46 PM, Duncan wrote:
> Juan Fco. Giordana posted on Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:31:01 +0000 as excerpted:
>
>> alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
>>> I need vfat tools (mkfs.vfat, fsck.vfat...) and can't figure out the
>>> package to which they belong. Help welcome...
>>
>>
>> sys-fs/dosfstools :P
>
> LOL.  Didn't know we had that many list readers!

I think the problem here is the increased hiccup frequency of GMane 
lately :P  At the time we posted "dosfstools" most didn't even see that 
other people already replied with the same thing.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-03 22:39     ` Nikos Chantziaras
@ 2009-12-04  0:26       ` Josh Sled
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Josh Sled @ 2009-12-04  0:26 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> writes:
> I think the problem here is the increased hiccup frequency of GMane lately :P
> At the time we posted "dosfstools" most didn't even see that other people
> already replied with the same thing.

It was not gmane.  I saw the same delay being a traditionally-subscribed
user, and was the reason I replied, too.

-- 
...jsled
http://asynchronous.org/ - a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-03 21:46   ` [gentoo-amd64] " Duncan
  2009-12-03 22:39     ` Nikos Chantziaras
@ 2009-12-04  2:36     ` Barry Schwartz
  2009-12-04  4:57       ` Frank Peters
  2009-12-04  5:37       ` Duncan
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Barry Schwartz @ 2009-12-04  2:36 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> skribis:
> (FWIW, I format everything reiserfs or ext2/3/4, here, and haven't used 
> fat, at least not to the degree I'd need to fsck or mkfs it, if someone 
> not on Linux needs a file, it goes by net and they download it to their 
> own fs, since my Mandrake days at least (I switched to Gentoo in early 
> 2004), so was perhaps one of the few here that did /not/ know what 
> package those utilities were in.)

Depending on what the DOS fs stuff is for, sys-fs/ntfs3g might be a
better option, anyway, though I have a vfat partition from before I
discovered ntfs3g, and would keep dosfstools (and the kernel support)
and/or mtools around anyway, for working with those very occasional
floppies.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04  2:36     ` Barry Schwartz
@ 2009-12-04  4:57       ` Frank Peters
  2009-12-04  6:14         ` Lie Ryan
  2009-12-04  6:18         ` Barry Schwartz
  2009-12-04  5:37       ` Duncan
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Frank Peters @ 2009-12-04  4:57 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 20:36:48 -0600
Barry Schwartz <chemoelectric@chemoelectric.org> wrote:

> 
> Depending on what the DOS fs stuff is for, sys-fs/ntfs3g might be a
> better option, anyway, though I have a vfat partition from before I
> discovered ntfs3g, and would keep dosfstools (and the kernel support)
> and/or mtools around anyway, for working with those very occasional
> floppies.
> 

It's not just floppies.  FAT still has a major use for formatting
memory cards in digital cameras.  If one is going to process digital
images with Linux one had better have the ability to handle FAT
partitions. 

Frank Peters




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04  2:36     ` Barry Schwartz
  2009-12-04  4:57       ` Frank Peters
@ 2009-12-04  5:37       ` Duncan
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Duncan @ 2009-12-04  5:37 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Barry Schwartz posted on Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:36:48 -0600 as excerpted:

> Depending on what the DOS fs stuff is for, sys-fs/ntfs3g might be a
> better option, anyway, though I have a vfat partition from before I
> discovered ntfs3g, and would keep dosfstools (and the kernel support)
> and/or mtools around anyway, for working with those very occasional
> floppies.

As I said, I've been formatting those ext2.  Now that ext4 is available 
without journaling, perhaps I'll eventually switch to it.

The only other thing I do with floppies is copy premade FreeDOS images to 
them, for stuff like flashing BIOSs.  My board is now EOLed and no more 
flashes for it, but I had a clean 1.44 floppy FreeDOS OEM image that I'd 
copy, loopback-mount the copy, copy in the new flash executable and BIOS 
bin image, umount, dd the image direct to /dev/fd0, verify it, then boot 
to the floppy and flash the BIOS.  Unfortunately, the last one I did 
killed the BIOS as I had a stick of bad memory that caused it to write 
corruption, so I had to order from Cali a new BIOS chip flashed to the 
last update, but until then, the system worked well.  But other than 
that, the only floppies I've done for years have been ext2.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04  4:57       ` Frank Peters
@ 2009-12-04  6:14         ` Lie Ryan
  2009-12-04 17:35           ` Duncan
  2009-12-04  6:18         ` Barry Schwartz
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lie Ryan @ 2009-12-04  6:14 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On 12/4/2009 3:57 PM, Frank Peters wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 20:36:48 -0600
> Barry Schwartz<chemoelectric@chemoelectric.org>  wrote:
>> Depending on what the DOS fs stuff is for, sys-fs/ntfs3g might be a
>> better option, anyway, though I have a vfat partition from before I
>> discovered ntfs3g, and would keep dosfstools (and the kernel support)
>> and/or mtools around anyway, for working with those very occasional
>> floppies.
>>
> It's not just floppies.  FAT still has a major use for formatting
> memory cards in digital cameras.  If one is going to process digital
> images with Linux one had better have the ability to handle FAT
> partitions.

Don't know whether such precaution is necessary, but I kept a small FAT 
(actually 8G is not so small) partition in my external harddisk that 
contains drivers for ntfs-3g for the platforms that I may meet at the 
middle of the road. It saved me a couple of times when I happen to be in 
a computer (or Gentoo Live CD) that can't read (or can only read) NTFS.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04  4:57       ` Frank Peters
  2009-12-04  6:14         ` Lie Ryan
@ 2009-12-04  6:18         ` Barry Schwartz
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Barry Schwartz @ 2009-12-04  6:18 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Frank Peters <frank.peters@comcast.net> skribis:
> Barry Schwartz <chemoelectric@chemoelectric.org> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Depending on what the DOS fs stuff is for, sys-fs/ntfs3g might be a
> > better option, anyway, though I have a vfat partition from before I
> > discovered ntfs3g, and would keep dosfstools (and the kernel support)
> > and/or mtools around anyway, for working with those very occasional
> > floppies.
> > 
> 
> It's not just floppies.  FAT still has a major use for formatting
> memory cards in digital cameras.  If one is going to process digital
> images with Linux one had better have the ability to handle FAT
> partitions. 

That makes sense.

There's mtools as well, but it's nice to be able to mount the fs.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04  6:14         ` Lie Ryan
@ 2009-12-04 17:35           ` Duncan
  2009-12-04 19:17             ` Lie Ryan
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Duncan @ 2009-12-04 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Lie Ryan posted on Fri, 04 Dec 2009 17:14:38 +1100 as excerpted:

> Don't know whether such precaution is necessary, but I kept a small FAT
> (actually 8G is not so small) partition in my external harddisk that
> contains drivers for ntfs-3g for the platforms that I may meet at the
> middle of the road. It saved me a couple of times when I happen to be in
> a computer (or Gentoo Live CD) that can't read (or can only read) NTFS.

I mentioned in another post (I /think/ to this list??) that I recently 
upgraded to GPT partitioning, using gdisk.  GPT has several mechanisms to 
help ensure boot-time compatibility and that no legacy MBR based 
partition editor overwrites things accidentally.

1) There's normally what's called a "protective MBR partition", that 
makes it look to legacy MBR partition table editors like the entire disk 
(well, to the 2-TiB boundary which is as far as they see) is a single 
partition of unknown type.  The idea here is to prevent accidentally 
erasing the GPT partition info.

2) For legacy BIOS based booting, the first partition (typically 200 KB 
or so, I made mine a full 1024 KiB, 1 MiB, just to simplify things, but 
it sure felt strange making a partition that small!) should be reserved 
as a BIOS boot partition -- basically, it's there to give certain legacy 
BIOS bootloaders a spot to put their second stages, etc, without 
overwriting anything else.

3) For newer EFI based booting, the standard specifies an EFI system 
partition, FAT32 formatted, of a hundred MB or so.  For non-portable 
disks, only one of the two, either a BIOS boot partition (#2 above) or an 
EFI system partition, need be present, but I went ahead and put both on 
mine, even tho my present system doesn't really use either one.  The EFI 
system partition has its own registered partition type, so can be 
anywhere on the disk, up to the standard 128 partitions that can fit in 
the standard minimum GPT spec (thus, 128 partitions is the standard, 
since that's what fits in the minimum spec, and few folks have reason for 
more than that, tho it's an option available in the spec), but I put it 
as partition 2, just because.  I made mine 127 MiB, so the first two 
partitions combined are exactly 128 MiB, 1/4 GiB.

On a full EFI boot system, this EFI system partition can contain the 
drivers necessary to access any of the other partitions and load the OS.  
EFI includes its own initial boot loader spec, and OSs can drop drivers 
here as necessary to chain-load their own loader on their own filesystems.

As mentioned, the Linux kernel is natively GPT/EFI aware as long as the 
option is compiled in.  According to the documentation, GRUB2 is natively 
GPT/EFI aware and will use the BIOS boot partition for its second stage 
and related files.  GRUB (legacy, grub1, the 0.97-rX versions Gentoo 
defaults to at present) isn't natively GPT aware, but there are patches 
floating around that add the capability, and Gentoo includes those 
patches, so there's no problem with GRUB1 either, tho it ignores the BIOS 
boot partition as well as the EFI system partition, placing its second 
stage in its boot partition, if there's no room to embed it, instead.  So 
one could accurately say GRUB-legacy with the GPT patches only partly 
supports GPT, it'll boot on it and won't damage it when installing, but 
won't make use of the reserved BIOS boot partition as GRUB2 does.

Apparently MS supports GPT/EFI from Vista onward, and of course, Apple 
does, as they were one of the first on the EFI bandwagon, developing it 
with Intel.

4) As mentioned above, EFI speced systems don't have BIOS, per se, any 
more, EFI replaces it, and don't use conventional boot loaders, either, 
as the EFI spec has its own.  I don't know enough about EFI systems to be 
sure, but given what I know of computer systems in general, I expect that 
ultimately, EFI's boot loader will probably simply chain-load the OS 
native boot loader, in many cases, much as grub does with the MS 
bootloader, today.

So FWIW, your "small" 8 gig partition for boot-time compatibility 
purposes is sort of already built into the GPT/EFI spec.  That would 
contain all you needed to boot the kernel, and if you chose not to build 
them into your kernels, your ntfs and other kernel modules would be 
loaded from /boot as standard initramfs/initrd, if necessary, or from the 
standard /lib/modules/<kern-ver> subdir, if not necessary to load /.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04 17:35           ` Duncan
@ 2009-12-04 19:17             ` Lie Ryan
  2009-12-04 20:52               ` Duncan
  2009-12-04 21:12               ` Frank Peters
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lie Ryan @ 2009-12-04 19:17 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On 12/5/2009 4:35 AM, Duncan wrote:
> So FWIW, your "small" 8 gig partition for boot-time compatibility
> purposes is sort of already built into the GPT/EFI spec.  That would
> contain all you needed to boot the kernel, and if you chose not to build
> them into your kernels, your ntfs and other kernel modules would be
> loaded from /boot as standard initramfs/initrd, if necessary, or from the
> standard/lib/modules/<kern-ver>  subdir, if not necessary to load /.

Booting was one of my least concern (it's a portable external harddisk, 
I don't need an OS in there), I use the FAT partition to store NTFS 
drivers (source and precompiled) for systems that don't already have 
NTFS-3G installed and where internet is scarce or compiler is 
unavailable (e.g. Gentoo LiveCD or Macs) since the rest of my external 
harddisk is formatted as NTFS.

These systems are often not my own (a friend's Macbook) or is volatile 
(e.g. Gentoo LiveCD, which can only read NTFS). The 8G is small compared 
to the external's size (120G), but big enough to transfer a 
single-layer-DVD worth of data if I need to (once I salvaged data from a 
broken Windows NTFS filesystem with Gentoo LiveCD to the FAT partition).



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04 19:17             ` Lie Ryan
@ 2009-12-04 20:52               ` Duncan
  2009-12-04 22:46                 ` Lie Ryan
  2009-12-04 21:12               ` Frank Peters
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Duncan @ 2009-12-04 20:52 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Lie Ryan posted on Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:17:42 +1100 as excerpted:

> The 8G is small compared to the external's size (120G)

I think I mentioned it, but I still find it amazing... Fry's Electronics 
recently had a USB 1 TB external for $80.  I snagged one.  I'm not 
bragging, as after tax, that's about what they're going for on 
pricewatch.com (no tax but with shipping) now days as well; I'm just 
still so amazed that prices have come down that far.  A TB disk for $80.  
It's just... weird!

Meanwhile, 120 gig... is almost USB thumbdrive size now.  When you said 
"small" 8 gig partition, I was thinking relative to a half terabyte 
drive, at least, and with TB drives at $80 (which I still find almost 
unbelievable), half TB would be models from a year or two ago.  8/120ths 
might be small, but it doesn't look so small when someone's thinking 
8/500ths or 8/1000ths on the one hand, and has just done the GPT 
repartition I mentioned and felt incredibly foolish sticking a measly
1 MiB partition (the BIOS boot partition) on that 1 TB (931 GiB) drive!

Let's see... 1 MiB of 931 GiB... 1/953,344th (actually less, I think it 
was actually 931.5 GiB or so, I could fit nearly 500 of those 1 MiB 
partitions in the rounding error!) of the drive.  That'd be roughly 
comparable to a partition of a byte and a half (three nibbles, 12 bits) 
on a 1.44 MB floppy! (Tho talk about rounding error!)  No wonder I felt a 
bit foolish! =:^)

I guess "small" is relative, and definitely in the eyes of the beholder, 
isn't it?

... I still can't get over terabyte drives, for $80...  I think I'm 
beginning to appreciate how my grandparents must have felt, seeing the 
car overtake the horse and buggy!  I've known I was officially an "Old 
Fart" since the day I was enthusiastically talking about a particular 
album of a particular band (Styx, Killroy was Here, FWIW)... and suddenly 
realized that I wasn't sure which was here first, the guy I was talking 
to, or the album, as he was about old enough to have been /born/ that 
year!  But still, a terabyte for under $100 with enough left over to stop 
for dinner on the way home... incredible!  Talking about a terabyte still 
seems like it should be like talking about a million dollars, yeah, the 
figure exists, but it's something CEOs and governments use in their 
everyday conversation, not something I'm likely to ever see... but now 
that terabyte is under $100 with change left for dinner!

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04 19:17             ` Lie Ryan
  2009-12-04 20:52               ` Duncan
@ 2009-12-04 21:12               ` Frank Peters
  2009-12-04 22:26                 ` Barry Schwartz
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Frank Peters @ 2009-12-04 21:12 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:17:42 +1100
Lie Ryan <lie.1296@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Booting was one of my least concern (it's a portable external harddisk, 
> I don't need an OS in there), I use the FAT partition to store NTFS 
> drivers (source and precompiled) for systems that don't already have 
> NTFS-3G installed and where internet is scarce or compiler is 
> unavailable (e.g. Gentoo LiveCD or Macs) since the rest of my external 
> harddisk is formatted as NTFS.
> 

That's the beauty of Open Source.  Commercial development would have
killed off FAT because of its low popularity, but Open Source maintains
FAT capability because it is something that *should* be available, if
only to allow some small group to tinker with ancient systems.

Hopefully Gentoo will continue this philosophy of keeping things
alive whether or not they represent the mainstream.  I sometimes
prefer to use older tools.  For example, I still use Lilo to boot
my machines.  Fortunately Lilo is still a part of the portage tree
and, IMO, should not be removed simply because Grub is more popular.

Once Open Source, and Gentoo, begins to cater exclusively to the
latest software fashions, it will, again IMO, no longer be worth
using.

Frank Peters



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04 21:12               ` Frank Peters
@ 2009-12-04 22:26                 ` Barry Schwartz
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Barry Schwartz @ 2009-12-04 22:26 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Frank Peters <frank.peters@comcast.net> write:
> That's the beauty of Open Source.  Commercial development would have
> killed off FAT because of its low popularity, but Open Source maintains
> FAT capability because it is something that *should* be available, if
> only to allow some small group to tinker with ancient systems.

Nah, Microsoft kept and would have kept FAT, not to mention
COMMAND.COM. IBM systems, traditionally, kept vestiges of stuff from
the Pleistocene, all of it carefully documented.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04 20:52               ` Duncan
@ 2009-12-04 22:46                 ` Lie Ryan
  2009-12-05  4:35                   ` Duncan
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lie Ryan @ 2009-12-04 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On 12/5/2009 7:52 AM, Duncan wrote:
> Lie Ryan posted on Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:17:42 +1100 as excerpted:
>
>> The 8G is small compared to the external's size (120G)
>
> I think I mentioned it, but I still find it amazing... Fry's Electronics
> recently had a USB 1 TB external for $80.  I snagged one.  I'm not
> bragging, as after tax, that's about what they're going for on
> pricewatch.com (no tax but with shipping) now days as well; I'm just
> still so amazed that prices have come down that far.  A TB disk for $80.
> It's just... weird!

If you mean this guy: 
http://www.frys.com/product/5832713;jsessionid=IEhzBaKBRCPLT6YdVM4dqw**.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

it wouldn't fit into my pocket, wouldn't it?

> Meanwhile, 120 gig... is almost USB thumbdrive size now.  When you said
> "small" 8 gig partition, I was thinking relative to a half terabyte
> drive,

A quarter terrabytes (250GB). This is not the first time I messed up 
when stating my external's size. Still small, but better at least. The 
120 GB is my laptop's (which are quite a few years old now).

  at least, and with TB drives at $80 (which I still find almost
> unbelievable), half TB would be models from a year or two ago.  8/120ths
> might be small, but it doesn't look so small when someone's thinking
> 8/500ths or 8/1000ths on the one hand, and has just done the GPT
> repartition I mentioned and felt incredibly foolish sticking a measly
> 1 MiB partition (the BIOS boot partition) on that 1 TB (931 GiB) drive!

But I felt even more foolish to have to reboot to the the OS in my 
harddisk just to copy a 50kB file to my NTFS partition because my 
friend's Macbook cannot write to NTFS. GPT only helps to boot, it 
doesn't make a Macbook read from NTFS partition or a Gentoo LiveCD write 
to NTFS.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-amd64]  Re: FAT tools, where ?
  2009-12-04 22:46                 ` Lie Ryan
@ 2009-12-05  4:35                   ` Duncan
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Duncan @ 2009-12-05  4:35 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Lie Ryan posted on Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:46:30 +1100 as excerpted:

> But I felt even more foolish to have to reboot to the the OS in my
> harddisk just to copy a 50kB file to my NTFS partition because my
> friend's Macbook cannot write to NTFS. GPT only helps to boot, it
> doesn't make a Macbook read from NTFS partition or a Gentoo LiveCD write
> to NTFS.

True...

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2009-12-05  6:00 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 30+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-12-02 15:42 [gentoo-amd64] FAT tools, where ? alain.didierjean
2009-12-02 16:03 ` Richard Freeman
2009-12-02 16:04 ` Alex Alexander
2009-12-02 16:07 ` Carsten Hajunga
2009-12-02 16:26 ` Jesús Guerrero
2009-12-02 16:30 ` [gentoo-amd64] " Nikos Chantziaras
2009-12-02 17:08 ` [gentoo-amd64] " Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas
2009-12-02 17:09 ` zuboskal 14
2009-12-02 17:15 ` Josh Sled
2009-12-02 17:49 ` Japan Man
2009-12-02 18:50   ` Barry Schwartz
2009-12-02 18:04 ` Marko Obrovac
2009-12-02 20:38 ` Justin
2009-12-03  7:31 ` Juan Fco. Giordana
2009-12-03 21:46   ` [gentoo-amd64] " Duncan
2009-12-03 22:39     ` Nikos Chantziaras
2009-12-04  0:26       ` Josh Sled
2009-12-04  2:36     ` Barry Schwartz
2009-12-04  4:57       ` Frank Peters
2009-12-04  6:14         ` Lie Ryan
2009-12-04 17:35           ` Duncan
2009-12-04 19:17             ` Lie Ryan
2009-12-04 20:52               ` Duncan
2009-12-04 22:46                 ` Lie Ryan
2009-12-05  4:35                   ` Duncan
2009-12-04 21:12               ` Frank Peters
2009-12-04 22:26                 ` Barry Schwartz
2009-12-04  6:18         ` Barry Schwartz
2009-12-04  5:37       ` Duncan
2009-12-03 12:05 ` [gentoo-amd64] " Justin

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