[gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Mark Haney]

Well, I'm sitting here reading about the lack of thunderbird devel over 
the next year or two until the new Mozilla project (or whatever you wish 
to call it) gets rolling and I'm wondering, what is a good replacement 
for Tbird, specifically for KDE.

I use Evolution when I'm in GNOME at home, but I've really disliked it's 
direction recently.  KMail works off and on, but might be suitable.  But 
are there any others out there not built with gtk+ so I don't have to 
compile all that just for one app?

-- 
Recedite, plebes! Gero rem imperialem!


Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator
ERC Broadband
(828) 350-2415

Call (866) ERC-7110 for after hours support
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Duncan]

"Mark Haney" <mhaney@ercbroadband.org> posted
473DF470.1050901@ercbroadband.org, excerpted below, on  Fri, 16 Nov 2007
14:50:08 -0500:

> Well, I'm sitting here reading about the lack of thunderbird devel over
> the next year or two until the new Mozilla project (or whatever you wish
> to call it) gets rolling and I'm wondering, what is a good replacement
> for Tbird, specifically for KDE.
> 
> I use Evolution when I'm in GNOME at home, but I've really disliked it's
> direction recently.  KMail works off and on, but might be suitable.  But
> are there any others out there not built with gtk+ so I don't have to
> compile all that just for one app?

As a KDE user who has GTK+ merged just for pan support, I can identify. 
=8^(  Personally, kmail works well for me.  Well, it normally does.  I'm 
trying the kde4 betas lately and my account settings seem to have 
disappeared due to switching back and forth between kde-3.5 and kde4-svn, 
but putting them back in worked, and that's the sort of inconveniences 
that one running betas gets used to, on occasion, but other than that, 
I've been quite happy with kmail.  

Note that I use the pop3 and local maildir delivery features only, 
however.  While kmail supports IMAP, I understand it hasn't been as 
smoothly handled until recently, and possibly still isn't, altho IMAP 
should work in general.  If you don't use or can avoid IMAP, kmail is 
nice.  If you do use IMAP and can't conveniently avoid it, then I know 
there's basic support at least, but I can't fairly say how good it is as 
I've not used the IMAP side myself, but have read it's not the same.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Naga Toro]

On Friday 16 November 2007 21.54.32 Duncan wrote:
[...]
> Note that I use the pop3 and local maildir delivery features only,
> however.  While kmail supports IMAP, I understand it hasn't been as
> smoothly handled until recently, and possibly still isn't, altho IMAP
> should work in general.  If you don't use or can avoid IMAP, kmail is
> nice.  If you do use IMAP and can't conveniently avoid it, then I know
> there's basic support at least, but I can't fairly say how good it is as
> I've not used the IMAP side myself, but have read it's not the same.

I've been using KMail with IMAP for the last 2 years with almost no problems.

/Naga
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Duncan]

Naga Toro <nagatoro@gmail.com> posted
200711162218.46767.nagatoro@gmail.com, excerpted below, on  Fri, 16 Nov
2007 22:18:46 +0100:

> I've been using KMail with IMAP for the last 2 years with almost no
> problems.

Good to read. =8^)  FWIW, the last kmail IMAP bugs that I read about 
being fixed had to do with not being able to work with IMAP folders with 
certain folder names, folders which are default in certain deployments, 
thus the problem.  If you were using IMAP without those folders, you'd be 
fine.

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Mike Williams]

On Friday 16 November 2007 20:54:32 Duncan wrote:
> While kmail supports IMAP, I understand it hasn't been as
> smoothly handled until recently, and possibly still isn't, altho IMAP
> should work in general.

Kmail rocks my world.
Disconnected IMAP used to be "flaky" back in the 3.3/3.4 days. However I can't 
even remember the last time I had even the remotest hint of a problem with 
kmail at all, IMAP or not.

-- 
Mike Williams
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Beso]

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you may want to try kolab ( http://www.kolab.org/ ). this is an integrated
groupware solution for emails, appointments, contacts and more.
it's not something that a single user might want to use but it's a cool
solution for someone who searches a mailserver which can connect to almost
all the types of mailservers around. there should be an abuild from gunna
wrobel which installs kolab and configures the software.
for all the other daily uses kmail is quite good, but i wasn't able to get
ima working with gmail.

2007/11/16, Mike Williams <mike@gaima.co.uk>:
>
> On Friday 16 November 2007 20:54:32 Duncan wrote:
> > While kmail supports IMAP, I understand it hasn't been as
> > smoothly handled until recently, and possibly still isn't, altho IMAP
> > should work in general.
>
> Kmail rocks my world.
> Disconnected IMAP used to be "flaky" back in the 3.3/3.4 days. However I
> can't
> even remember the last time I had even the remotest hint of a problem with
> kmail at all, IMAP or not.
>
> --
> Mike Williams
> --
> gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 
dott. ing. beso

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Florian D.]

Mark Haney wrote:
> Well, I'm sitting here reading about the lack of thunderbird devel over
> the next year or two until the new Mozilla project (or whatever you wish
> to call it) gets rolling and I'm wondering, what is a good replacement
> for Tbird, specifically for KDE.
> 
> I use Evolution when I'm in GNOME at home, but I've really disliked it's
> direction recently.  KMail works off and on, but might be suitable.  But
> are there any others out there not built with gtk+ so I don't have to
> compile all that just for one app?
> 

That is a good question. I cannot support all the votes for kmail. If
you want to switch to mdir based mailboxes and you want to use kmail
just as a local mailbox reader, the first thing that kmail does, is to
move all your mails into some obscure ~/kde3.5/share/apps/kmail/...
directory. After that, your mails are not available for other
mail-clients any more. nice behaviour, isn't it?
I couldn't find a way to tell kmail not to do that, but to read the
mails from the preconfigured place instead.

A second point is, that kmail does not scale well for large mailboxes.
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Florian D. <flockmock@gmx.at> wrote:

Hi folks,

I just joined this list yesterday, so I miss parts of this thread ...

> That is a good question. I cannot support all the votes for kmail. If
> you want to switch to mdir based mailboxes and you want to use kmail
> just as a local mailbox reader, the first thing that kmail does, is to
> move all your mails into some obscure ~/kde3.5/share/apps/kmail/...
> directory. After that, your mails are not available for other
> mail-clients any more. nice behaviour, isn't it?
> I couldn't find a way to tell kmail not to do that, but to read the
> mails from the preconfigured place instead.

Last time I tried it was years ago, I didn't like it. Too fat
(requires the whole KDE stuff) and too complicated in use. 
I'm actually an mutt guy, sometimes using seamonkey's mail stuff.

The only reason for installing TB is the support for RSS feeds
(mutt IMHO doesnt have this yet).

Evrything could be much easier, if every MUA just used 9p-mailfs,
and the actual mailbox (and remote protocol) handling is done 
in the 9p server ;-o


cu
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Dustin C. Hatch]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've been a Thunderbird user for quite a long time, and I don't plan to
change. I know that doesn't really answer your question, but I would
just like to note that it is still the best mail client I have ever
used. I cannot find a better, more stable, more feature-filled MUA with
the small dependency list that Thunderbird has.  Personally, I will
stick with it even counting the discontinued support on Mozilla's behalf.

Dustin C. Hatch
theNeverFading


Mark Haney wrote:
> Well, I'm sitting here reading about the lack of thunderbird devel over
> the next year or two until the new Mozilla project (or whatever you wish
> to call it) gets rolling and I'm wondering, what is a good replacement
> for Tbird, specifically for KDE.
> 
> I use Evolution when I'm in GNOME at home, but I've really disliked it's
> direction recently.  KMail works off and on, but might be suitable.  But
> are there any others out there not built with gtk+ so I don't have to
> compile all that just for one app?
> 
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=ow+3
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Paul Colquhoun]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007, Florian D. wrote:
> Mark Haney wrote:
> > Well, I'm sitting here reading about the lack of thunderbird devel
> > over the next year or two until the new Mozilla project (or whatever
> > you wish to call it) gets rolling and I'm wondering, what is a good
> > replacement for Tbird, specifically for KDE.
> > 
> > I use Evolution when I'm in GNOME at home, but I've really disliked
> > it's direction recently.  KMail works off and on, but might be
> > suitable.  But are there any others out there not built with gtk+ so
> > I don't have to compile all that just for one app?
> > 
> 
> That is a good question. I cannot support all the votes for kmail. If
> you want to switch to mdir based mailboxes and you want to use kmail
> just as a local mailbox reader, the first thing that kmail does, is to
> move all your mails into some obscure ~/kde3.5/share/apps/kmail/...
> directory. After that, your mails are not available for other
> mail-clients any more. nice behaviour, isn't it?
> I couldn't find a way to tell kmail not to do that, but to read the
> mails from the preconfigured place instead.
> 
> A second point is, that kmail does not scale well for large mailboxes.


I've been using kmail for years, and it's always been happy to keep my 
email under ~/Mail and I have no trouble using mutt to access the kmail 
directory when I an logged in via ssh.

As for scaling, I have some folders with over 3000 messages in them, and 
can't recall any problems accessing them. What size mailbox do you 
consider to be "large" and what scaling problems does it trigger?


-- 
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC.    http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
     Asking for technical help in newsgroups?  Read this first:
        http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Florian D.]

Paul Colquhoun wrote:
> 
> 
> I've been using kmail for years, and it's always been happy to keep my 
> email under ~/Mail and I have no trouble using mutt to access the kmail 
> directory when I an logged in via ssh.
is this a mbox or maildir mailbox?

> 
> As for scaling, I have some folders with over 3000 messages in them, and 
> can't recall any problems accessing them. What size mailbox do you 
> consider to be "large" and what scaling problems does it trigger?
> 
> 
I subscribed to LKML and wanted to keep the newest mails for one
month: ~10000 mails. filtering by age needed a lot more time as with
thunderbird, for example.
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Paul Colquhoun]

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007, Florian D. wrote:
> Paul Colquhoun wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I've been using kmail for years, and it's always been happy to keep
> > my email under ~/Mail and I have no trouble using mutt to access the
> > kmail directory when I an logged in via ssh.
>
> is this a mbox or maildir mailbox?


All in maildir format.


> > 
> > As for scaling, I have some folders with over 3000 messages in them,
> > and can't recall any problems accessing them. What size mailbox do
> > you consider to be "large" and what scaling problems does it
> > trigger? 
> > 
>
> I subscribed to LKML and wanted to keep the newest mails for one
> month: ~10000 mails. filtering by age needed a lot more time as with
> thunderbird, for example.


OK, that's a lot more than I have in any one folder, and I don't use 
aging to remove old messages (I just do it by hand occasionally).


-- 
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC.    http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
     Asking for technical help in newsgroups?  Read this first:
        http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Samstag, 17. November 2007, Florian D. wrote:
> Mark Haney wrote:
> > Well, I'm sitting here reading about the lack of thunderbird devel over
> > the next year or two until the new Mozilla project (or whatever you wish
> > to call it) gets rolling and I'm wondering, what is a good replacement
> > for Tbird, specifically for KDE.
> >
> > I use Evolution when I'm in GNOME at home, but I've really disliked it's
> > direction recently.  KMail works off and on, but might be suitable.  But
> > are there any others out there not built with gtk+ so I don't have to
> > compile all that just for one app?
>
> That is a good question. I cannot support all the votes for kmail. If
> you want to switch to mdir based mailboxes and you want to use kmail
> just as a local mailbox reader, the first thing that kmail does, is to
> move all your mails into some obscure ~/kde3.5/share/apps/kmail/...

no, it really does not. It uses ~/Mail like everybody else.

> directory. After that, your mails are not available for other
> mail-clients any more. nice behaviour, isn't it?

they are very available (not like evolution, which really fucks you up).

> I couldn't find a way to tell kmail not to do that, but to read the
> mails from the preconfigured place instead.
>
> A second point is, that kmail does not scale well for large mailboxes.

Is 33600 mails large or 59000 (just gentoo mails)?
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Duncan]

Paul Colquhoun <paulcol@andor.dropbear.id.au> posted
200711180906.41607.paulcol@andor.dropbear.id.au, excerpted below, on  Sun,
18 Nov 2007 09:06:41 +1100:

>> That is a good question. I cannot support all the votes for kmail. If
>> you want to switch to mdir based mailboxes and you want to use kmail
>> just as a local mailbox reader, the first thing that kmail does, is to
>> move all your mails into some obscure ~/kde3.5/share/apps/kmail/...
>> directory. After that, your mails are not available for other
>> mail-clients any more. nice behaviour, isn't it? I couldn't find a way
>> to tell kmail not to do that, but to read the mails from the
>> preconfigured place instead.
>> 
>> A second point is, that kmail does not scale well for large mailboxes.
> 
> 
> I've been using kmail for years, and it's always been happy to keep my
> email under ~/Mail and I have no trouble using mutt to access the kmail
> directory when I an logged in via ssh.

Same here, only I keep my mail under /mail/<user>/.  I did look to see 
where the setting is in the current GUI and didn't see it, but found it 
in ~/.kde3.5/share/config/kmailrc, in the [general] section, 
folders=<path>.  I suppose I set it years ago, and every new version has 
picked it up from the old settings.

Now, the dir you mentioned, ~/kde3.5/share/apps/kmail, does contain a 
bunch of state settings, apparently the read/unread record for all the 
mail folders under the root location (/mail/<user>/ here), but that's 
simply app config information, stored in one of the two standard user KDE 
config dirs (the other being ~/kde3.5/share/config), not the mail itself.

As for scaling, I too have seen no issues there.

-- 
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Mark Haney]

Mark Haney wrote:
> Well, I'm sitting here reading about the lack of thunderbird devel 
> over the next year or two until the new Mozilla project (or whatever 
> you wish to call it) gets rolling and I'm wondering, what is a good 
> replacement for Tbird, specifically for KDE.
>
> I use Evolution when I'm in GNOME at home, but I've really disliked 
> it's direction recently.  KMail works off and on, but might be 
> suitable.  But are there any others out there not built with gtk+ so I 
> don't have to compile all that just for one app?
>
I appreciate all the input.  I've used Kmail in the past, but since I 
mostly connect to our IMAP Exchange server (yeah I know, it's going away 
soon) I've had trouble with it.  Speed isn't an issue as it runs quite 
fast.  I was rather hoping there were more KDE-based alternatives out 
there.  Maybe I'll write my own.  :)


-- 
Mark Haney
Sr. Systems Administrator	
ERC Broadband


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Sunday 18 November 2007, Mark Haney wrote:

> I appreciate all the input.  I've used Kmail in the past, but since I
> mostly connect to our IMAP Exchange server (yeah I know, it's going
> away soon) I've had trouble with it.  Speed isn't an issue as it runs
> quite fast.  I was rather hoping there were more KDE-based
> alternatives out there.  Maybe I'll write my own.  :)

I'm using kmail right now, but I used claws-mail for a short period in 
the past, and it looked very light and feature-rich. And yes, it 
supports IMAP and reading news.
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Beso]

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> I appreciate all the input.  I've used Kmail in the past, but since I
> mostly connect to our IMAP Exchange server (yeah I know, it's going away
> soon) I've had trouble with it.  Speed isn't an issue as it runs quite
> fast.  I was rather hoping there were more KDE-based alternatives out
> there.  Maybe I'll write my own.  :)


then kolab is your man. it supports exchange very well, and it could also
duplicate your appointments and all the exchange features that you're using.



-- 
dott. ing. beso

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Replacement for Thunderbird.

[Sean]

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On Fri, Nov 16, 2007 at 02:50:08PM -0500, Mark Haney wrote:
> Well, I'm sitting here reading about the lack of thunderbird devel over the 
> next year or two until the new Mozilla project (or whatever you wish to 
> call it) gets rolling and I'm wondering, what is a good replacement for 
> Tbird, specifically for KDE.
>
> I use Evolution when I'm in GNOME at home, but I've really disliked it's 
> direction recently.  KMail works off and on, but might be suitable.  But 
> are there any others out there not built with gtk+ so I don't have to 
> compile all that just for one app?

I finally got fed up with Thunderbird, and have recently switched to
mutt. Yeah, I know, it's not a clicky-clicky, but so far I haven't
missed Thunderbird at all.

Another _huge_ bonus, in my opinion, with mutt is ease of mail reading
when I'm on strange machines. I can just ssh to one of my boxes and read
it that way. And as far as backing up the configuration goes, all I need
to keep track of is a small .muttrc file.

Just my 2c.

-- 
Sean

  The world has many unintentionally cruel mechanisms that are not
  designed for people who walk on their hands.
  		-- John Irving, "The World According to Garp"

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