From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IH3ES-0005zL-Px for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 19:54:45 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with SMTP id l73JpJmQ007769; Fri, 3 Aug 2007 19:51:19 GMT Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l73JpIBE007739 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2007 19:51:19 GMT Received: from gw.thefreemanclan.net ([68.162.79.38]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JM700AX3R5A4BMB@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:51:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw.thefreemanclan.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06CFF1240D0 for ; Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:51:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:51:08 -0400 From: Richard Freeman Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: System becomes almost unusable when compling c++ code In-reply-to: <200708031956.36209.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Message-id: <46B3872C.5070305@thefreemanclan.net> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary=------------ms010703040908020905040403 References: <20070803065913.GA23254@localhost> <46B33881.2060801@thefreemanclan.net> <200708031956.36209.volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20070803) X-Archives-Salt: e302dab2-18d1-4dd5-9883-8edf2e457574 X-Archives-Hash: 94cc423573112a597031a68f4e032edd This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010703040908020905040403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > emm, from my very personal point of view: no > > swap is horrible slow. Its use must be avoided at any cost. Swap sucks. > Everything is faster than accessing swap. So hitting the disk to read or > write some files is IMHO better than hitting the disk to shove X into swap. > > X in swap is another problem. You can be sure, if X is forced into swap, > because gcc uses up all ram for itself, everything sucks. Mouse is jerky, > windows need ages to get displayed. > Depends - if you're not using X then you won't mind X getting swapped (running emerge from ssh/etc). If you are using X then chance are it won't get swapped in the first place. If the issue is gcc using all ram for itself, then the presence/absence of tmpfs probably won't make much difference - gcc still has to run. I don't see why swap should be any better/worse than any other form of disk access. If anything it is superior as it allows the kernel to manage it like any other form of RAM, and the kernel isn't forced to flush it out to disk within some time (writes to a filesystem are forced to sync within some time to prevent data loss - this hurts performance and is totally unnecessary for temporary build files that will get deleted when you re-run emerge anyway). Even if you don't have a tmpfs writing to disk will tend to drive unused ram into swap - the system will swap idle memory to make room for cache/buffers - where the recently-written files will reside in ram. Now, in an extreme case where you have less RAM than the resident size of the apps you have running then swap will be horrible - but that is because you're continuously swapping in and out. And I doubt a tmpfs will make much difference either way. Now, if somebody has empirical data I'll certainly pay attention, or at least a lot of expertise. However, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that swap is worse than ordinary disk writes - linux manages swap fairly well all things considered. If you don't like how it is being managed there are kernel settings that can be used to tweak it (swappiness, etc). --------------ms010703040908020905040403 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMQDCC BhwwggQEoAMCAQICAwO6BzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4w HAYDVQQLExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmlu ZyBBdXRob3JpdHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeFw0wNzA2 MjUxMjA0NDFaFw0wNzEyMjIxMjA0NDFaMIHHMRgwFgYDVQQDEw9DQWNlcnQgV29UIFVzZXIx JDAiBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWFWZyZWVtYW5yaWNoQGdtYWlsLmNvbTEkMCIGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYV cmljaEByaWNoLmhvbWVkbnMub3JnMSYwJAYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhdyaWNoQHRoZWZyZWVtYW5j bGFuLm5ldDE3MDUGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYoYzBiYWI2OTVlODNmMmRiMGYxNjEwYmJkMDg2OWIw 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