[gentoo-amd64] Printer Setup

[gentoo-amd64] Printer Setup

[sean]

Why is printing from a Unix type box so painful!?!?!

Sorry, just frustrated again with this topic.

Anyway, trying to print from Gimp and when I print out the picture all I 
get is all sorts of nonsense text strings.

Would anyone even be able to give me an idea on where to start to 
troubleshoot?

I can print out an Openoffice write up without a problem.

				Thanks
				Sean
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Printer Setup

[Barry.SCHWARTZ]

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sean <tech.junk@verizon.net> skribis:
> Why is printing from a Unix type box so painful!?!?!

Historically, I would say, it has been painful in general, not just on
Unix boxes.

> Sorry, just frustrated again with this topic.
> 
> Anyway, trying to print from Gimp and when I print out the picture all I 
> get is all sorts of nonsense text strings.

What type of printer, what version of Gimp, what printing plug-in for
Gimp?

(For example, my situation: a PostScript level 3 printer, Gimp 2.3.x,
a recent version of Gutenprint installed with a Portage overlay.)


-- 
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Printer Setup

[Peter Davoust]

You do know that you can configure your printers by going to
htp://localhost:631 right? I had trouble with printing until then. Also,
if you have an HP printer, emerge hplip. It automatically configures HP
printers. run rc-update add hplip default /etc/init.d/hplip start. Then,
in localhost:631 the printer is
hp://insert_random.junk-here29184298123125. 

-Peter
On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 21:51 -0500, Barry.SCHWARTZ@chemoelectric.org
wrote:

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Printer Setup

[sean]

sean wrote:
> Why is printing from a Unix type box so painful!?!?!
> 
> Sorry, just frustrated again with this topic.
> 
> Anyway, trying to print from Gimp and when I print out the picture all I 
> get is all sorts of nonsense text strings.
> 
> Would anyone even be able to give me an idea on where to start to 
> troubleshoot?
> 
> I can print out an Openoffice write up without a problem.
> 
>                 Thanks
>                 Sean

Thanks all, things in order now.
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Printer Setup

[Joaquim Quinteiro Uchoa]

2006/10/10, sean <tech.junk@verizon.net>:
> Why is printing from a Unix type box so painful!?!?!

I think I'm a very lucky guy, because I have no problems with Linux
printing before CUPS. And I had several problems with Windows
instalation of printer drivers. I recently installed
a Okidata in 2 minutes in Linux and 15 minutes in Windows. And in
Windows I need to install a diferent port, with a reboot (of course).
It was a painfull process.

I'm happy you've resolved your problem... by the way: driver
instalation isn't a simple process, in any OS. A good approach is look
the support of the equipment after buying it. About printers,
www.linuxprinting.org is a good place to search for information about
printer suport in Linux.


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[]s
Joaquim
------------------------------------------
  (o_    Joaquim Quinteiro Uchoa
 //\        Consultor Linux e EaD
 U_/_    Linux User # 100534
------------------------------------------
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Printer Setup

[sean]

Joaquim Quinteiro Uchoa wrote:
> 2006/10/10, sean <tech.junk@verizon.net>:
>> Why is printing from a Unix type box so painful!?!?!
> 
> I think I'm a very lucky guy, because I have no problems with Linux
> printing before CUPS. And I had several problems with Windows
> instalation of printer drivers. I recently installed
> a Okidata in 2 minutes in Linux and 15 minutes in Windows. And in
> Windows I need to install a diferent port, with a reboot (of course).
> It was a painfull process.
> 
> I'm happy you've resolved your problem... by the way: driver
> instalation isn't a simple process, in any OS. A good approach is look
> the support of the equipment after buying it. About printers,
> www.linuxprinting.org is a good place to search for information about
> printer suport in Linux.
> 
> 

It would seem I spoke to soon, printer and Gimp once again not working 
together.
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Printer Setup

[Joaquim Quinteiro Uchoa]

2006/10/11, sean <tech.junk@verizon.net>:

> It would seem I spoke to soon, printer and Gimp once again not working
> together.

What are your printer, what configuration are you using (which filter, etc.)??

-- 
[]s
Joaquim
------------------------------------------
  (o_    Joaquim Quinteiro Uchoa
 //\        Consultor Linux e EaD
 U_/_    Linux User # 100534
------------------------------------------
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Duncan]

"Joaquim Quinteiro Uchoa" <joaquim.uchoa@gmail.com> posted
59541ff30610111011m44a61157xfce8a858c01aa888@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
below, on  Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:11:40 -0300:

> 2006/10/11, sean <tech.junk@verizon.net>:
> 
>> It would seem I spoke to soon, printer and Gimp once again not working
>> together.
> 
> What are your printer, what configuration are you using (which filter, etc.)??

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Gentoo Printing Guide yet.  It
worked perfectly last time I used it, tho I don't have a printer ATM so
will eventually have another chance to test it. =8^)

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/printing-howto.xml

As far as further configuration, I use KDE, and once I told it I was using
cups and made sure cups was running, it was actually quite easy to let
the KDE printing config stuff do the rest.  All told, it was /much/ easier
than I had expected, particularly given the horror stories I've read over
the years.

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[sean]

Duncan wrote:
> "Joaquim Quinteiro Uchoa" <joaquim.uchoa@gmail.com> posted
> 59541ff30610111011m44a61157xfce8a858c01aa888@mail.gmail.com, excerpted
> below, on  Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:11:40 -0300:
> 
>> 2006/10/11, sean <tech.junk@verizon.net>:
>>
>>> It would seem I spoke to soon, printer and Gimp once again not working
>>> together.
>> What are your printer, what configuration are you using (which filter, etc.)??
> 
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Gentoo Printing Guide yet.  It
> worked perfectly last time I used it, tho I don't have a printer ATM so
> will eventually have another chance to test it. =8^)
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/printing-howto.xml
> 
> As far as further configuration, I use KDE, and once I told it I was using
> cups and made sure cups was running, it was actually quite easy to let
> the KDE printing config stuff do the rest.  All told, it was /much/ easier
> than I had expected, particularly given the horror stories I've read over
> the years.
> 

The printer is setup fine, CUPS is running, and a great test page is 
produced.

The problem is from Gimp, all other apps seems fine. What I have found 
is that I always have to reselect and save the printer settings.

I also have to print the same item twice.
On first time print it pulls the paper in, and just runs the paper 
through, then pulls another sheet in and just stops. Checking the que, 
it shows no jobs.
Choose print again, and it then prints the picture.
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Duncan]

sean <tech.junk@verizon.net> posted 452D99D4.4030902@verizon.net,
excerpted below, on  Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:26:44 -0400:

> The printer is setup fine, CUPS is running, and a great test page is 
> produced.
> 
> The problem is from Gimp, all other apps seems fine. What I have found 
> is that I always have to reselect and save the printer settings.
> 
> I also have to print the same item twice.
> On first time print it pulls the paper in, and just runs the paper 
> through, then pulls another sheet in and just stops. Checking the que, 
> it shows no jobs.
> Choose print again, and it then prints the picture.

For historical reasons (there wasn't a suitably universal solution at the
time), GIMP has its own print driver setup.  However, that's a good thing
as for some printers the GIMP print driver is far better than the
foomatic solution, and it's possible to configure the system in general to
use it.

I don't use the GIMP personally, however (nothing against it, it's great
it's available, just that simpler interfaces like that of kpaint do what I
need with far less learning, and thus far less frustration in the mean
time, on my part), and the last printer I had worked well with KDE > CUPS
> foomatic, so that's about all I know about the gimpprint stuff.

BTW, that printer was the only one I've run on Linux, an HP 832c ink jet,
well supported but not suitable for use once every six months or so,
by which time the ink cartridges have plugged up.  Those are $30 to replace
HP, $10 generic, so while it was a relative ink miser for active use,
$10-30 every six months to print a couple pages wasn't a satisfactory
solution.  I expect I'll go laser printer next, tho I've not decided
whether to just get a cheap black-on-white-only or go color, which even
tho it's not as good quality as inkjet color (which isn't as good quality
as dye-sub), /would/ be about the same quality as my old inkjet was, given
its age.

At least in the inkjet range, for Linux, Epson or HP are by far the best
supported.  Perverting Cannon's slogan, on Linux, it's more "No you
Cannon(t)", tho it's better supported than the likes of Lex- (aka
shit)mark.  I've not taken the time to research lasers as I will before I
actually buy, yet. 

Meanwhile, I have alternatives such as simply not printing, saving and
reading on the computer instead (my usual), mailing it to work to print
and pick up if it's text or installing the software and hooking up the
modem again to fax it if line-drawing will work (they have a Brother lazer
based fax/printer/copier), or printing to text/image/pdf as appropriate
and transferring it to floppy/CD and taking it to a commercial printer if
desired.  All of those options are lower cost and about the same hassle as
the $10-30 every few months for a new cartridge every time I decide to
print a few pages, that I /was/ dealing with, so it works for me.

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:43:43 +0000 (UTC), Duncan wrote:

> For historical reasons (there wasn't a suitably universal solution at
> the time), GIMP has its own print driver setup.

It's also possible to have gimp-print print to a CUPS printer, which
saves having to configure the same device twice.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Rugged: Too heavy to lift.

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Duncan]

Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> posted
20061013085952.3b264572@hactar.digimed.co.uk, excerpted below, on  Fri, 13
Oct 2006 08:59:52 +0100:

> It's also possible to have gimp-print print to a CUPS printer, which saves
> having to configure the same device twice.

Cool.  I knew it could work the other way, but not this way.

The question then presents itself... What happens if you have cups
configured to gimp-print, and gimp-print configured to cups? =8^(

Obviously, no one would do that purposefully (unless they were trying to
test just that), but stuff happens, and I'm sure someone must have ended
up with the loop, before. =8^(

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:10:04 +0000 (UTC), Duncan wrote:

> The question then presents itself... What happens if you have cups
> configured to gimp-print, and gimp-print configured to cups? =8^(

Your hair runs out before your paper :(


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Angular Momentum Makes The World Go 'Round

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Jack Cuyler]

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:43:43 +0000, Duncan wrote:

> At least in the inkjet range, for Linux, Epson or HP are by far the best
> supported.  Perverting Cannon's slogan, on Linux, it's more "No you
> Cannon(t)", tho it's better supported than the likes of Lex- (aka
> shit)mark.  I've not taken the time to research lasers as I will before I
> actually buy, yet.

I was amazed to find that Brother is releasing GPL drivers for many of
their printers, as well.  I recently bought an MFC 210C for less than $50
at Office Max after seeing at www.linuxprinting.org that it works
"perfectly".  The drivers are packaged in rpm or deb, but after some
fiddling, they do indeed work perfectly.

-- 
Cheers,
Jack

NO ONE CARES WHAT MY DEFINITION OF "IS" IS
NO ONE CARES WHAT MY DEFINITION OF "IS" IS
NO ONE CARES WHAT MY DEFINITION OF "IS" IS
NO ONE CARES WHAT MY DEFINITION OF "IS" IS

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Duncan]

"Jack Cuyler" <jjvcuyler@drunkenbastards.com> posted
egqpdl$2fp$2@sea.gmane.org, excerpted below, on  Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:41:09
+0000:

> I was amazed to find that Brother is releasing GPL drivers for many of
> their printers, as well.  I recently bought an MFC 210C for less than $50
> at Office Max after seeing at www.linuxprinting.org that it works
> "perfectly".  The drivers are packaged in rpm or deb, but after some
> fiddling, they do indeed work perfectly.

That's very good news, as Brother is a popular brand.  I had actually been
looking at some Brothers but had no idea what the freedomware support was
like, so...

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Barry.SCHWARTZ]

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On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:43:43 +0000, Duncan wrote:
> At least in the inkjet range, for Linux, Epson or HP are by far the best
> supported.  Perverting Cannon's slogan, on Linux, it's more "No you
> Cannon(t)", tho it's better supported than the likes of Lex- (aka
> shit)mark.  I've not taken the time to research lasers as I will before I
> actually buy, yet.

I haven't been following the conversation, but will butt in anyway.

Wouldn't the main criterion for lasers (including color) be the
PostScript support? I'm using a monochrome Kyocera which I set to
accept only PostScript--so it is Windows that needs the special
driver. Kyocera is very cheap to operate.

Actually, now that I think of it, you want to make sure there is a PPD
file available for the printer, preferably downloadable before you
decide to buy. But that's all you need to tell programs like cups how
to change printer settings.


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'Democracies don't war; democracies are peaceful countries.' - Bush
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Duncan]

Barry.SCHWARTZ@chemoelectric.org posted
20061014223423.GA9603@crud.crud.mn.org, excerpted below, on  Sat, 14 Oct
2006 17:34:23 -0500:

> Wouldn't the main criterion for lasers (including color) be the
> PostScript support? I'm using a monochrome Kyocera which I set to
> accept only PostScript--so it is Windows that needs the special
> driver. Kyocera is very cheap to operate.
> 
> Actually, now that I think of it, you want to make sure there is a PPD
> file available for the printer, preferably downloadable before you
> decide to buy. But that's all you need to tell programs like cups how
> to change printer settings.

Yes on the PS support and the PPD file.  What I intend to do b4 I buy is
spend some time on that Linux printing site (IDR the URL but it's
mentioned in the Gentoo printing guide).  IIRC they suggest buying thru
them as a way of payback for keeping the site up, and after making a
short-list, I'll compare them with the usual brick&mortar stores with
the going prices on pricewatch.com, and if that site isn't more than
~10-15% higher than pricewatch (which usually gives a pretty good idea of
bottom price, tho there are occasionally other internet sites slightly
lower with coupons/rebates/whatever), and buy at the Linux printing site
if it's not more than ~10-15% higher.  Normally, I do that with the local
brick&mortar stores (Fry's Electronics or whatever), saving the shipping
hassle if I can find a reasonable price locally, but I might as well throw
the $$ Linux-printing way and say thanks for the great resource they
provide, if the price is reasonable.

The Brother they have at work is a laser 4-way printer-scanner-copier-fax,
tho they run SCO Open Server (yeah I know but they've been running it
since the 386 era, and at least if it's SCO they have a decent chance of
going Linux rather than MSWormOS when they /do/ switch).  The 4-way is
nice, tho they don't use the scanner at all, only the printer/copier/fax
functions.  If Open Server has drivers, there's a good chance Linux is
well supported as well, and it's be nice to be able to have the fax and
copier without going thru the computer.  It's monochrome, but can't be too
unreasonably priced or work wouldn't have one.  The toner cartridges cost
about $70, if I'm not mistaken, but last about five of the old printer's
$30 inkjet cartridges worth or better, so that's still reasonable.

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Sunday 15 October 2006 03:44, "Duncan" <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote 
about '[gentoo-amd64]  Re: Printer Setup':
> The Brother they have at work is a laser 4-way
> printer-scanner-copier-fax

Probably an MFC-7420, like mine, or possibly one of it's "big brothers."  
They have cups, lpd, and sane drivers available for x86 linux, but no 
support for other arches (including x86_64) last time I checked.  They do 
have a separate cups driver that allows faxing from your desktop.

As I'm on x86_64 and don't need a scanner much, I looked for other cups 
drivers that were available from portage and found the 
Brother MFC-9600 Foomatic/hl1250' driver worked fine for simple printing.

FWIW, I think Brother wants to be linux friendly, but haven't (for whatever 
reason) but a lot of effort behind it.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Barry.SCHWARTZ]

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Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> skribis:
> The Brother they have at work is a laser 4-way printer-scanner-copier-fax,
> tho they run SCO Open Server (yeah I know but they've been running it
> since the 386 era, and at least if it's SCO they have a decent chance of
> going Linux rather than MSWormOS when they /do/ switch).  The 4-way is
> nice, tho they don't use the scanner at all, only the printer/copier/fax
> functions.  If Open Server has drivers, there's a good chance Linux is
> well supported as well, and it's be nice to be able to have the fax and
> copier without going thru the computer.  It's monochrome, but can't be too
> unreasonably priced or work wouldn't have one.  The toner cartridges cost
> about $70, if I'm not mistaken, but last about five of the old printer's
> $30 inkjet cartridges worth or better, so that's still reasonable.

Toner kits for my FS-1920 seem to be going for about $100 these days,
which is for about 15000 pages. The duplex attachment saves paper,
although that's not the main reason for it.

When buying a Kyocera printer is a good time to buy some Kyocera
ceramic ballpoint pens to go with it! Kyocera ceramic kitchen knives,
too, though I've never used one.

-- 
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        Free stuff / Senpagaj varoj:  http://crudfactory.com (PDF)
'Democracies don't war; democracies are peaceful countries.' - Bush
(http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/12/20051219-2.html)

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Duncan]

"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." <bss03@volumehost.net> posted
200610150755.31570.bss03@volumehost.net, excerpted below, on  Sun, 15 Oct
2006 07:55:27 -0500:

> Probably an MFC-7420, like mine, or possibly one of it's "big brothers."
> They have cups, lpd, and sane drivers available for x86 linux, but no
> support for other arches (including x86_64) last time I checked.  They do
> have a separate cups driver that allows faxing from your desktop.

Just checked 2nite.  MFC-8220 IIRC, so it's the "big brother".  Are those
drivers closed source (in which case no way, I prefer FLOSS drivers,
thanks, and certainly won't be putting any of my money into anything
without them, "Linux" non-support that closed source ultimately is), or
open but simply not ported to amd64/x86_64 yet?  Regardless of what others
choose, I choose not to run what I see as slaveryware, period, no
negotiation even possible.

> As I'm on x86_64 and don't need a scanner much, I looked for other cups
> drivers that were available from portage and found the Brother MFC-9600
> Foomatic/hl1250' driver worked fine for simple printing.
> 
> FWIW, I think Brother wants to be linux friendly, but haven't (for
> whatever reason) but a lot of effort behind it.

That could well be.  Of course, if they simply open the specs
sufficiently, the community will often provide drivers without company
effort, and even in the corner cases where they don't, they'll often run
with the drivers once supplied, leaving the company free of worrying about
continued investment and support.  FWIW, I don't play NVidia's or ATI's
current "Linux support" games either.  If it's not free as in speech, it
doesn't get installed.  Simple as that.  That's why I'm running Radeon
9200 series here, as that was the last of their free products.

Anyway, thanks for the info.  Very useful! =8^)

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Paul de Vrieze]

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> Probably an MFC-7420, like mine, or possibly one of it's "big brothers."  
> They have cups, lpd, and sane drivers available for x86 linux, but no 
> support for other arches (including x86_64) last time I checked.  They do 
> have a separate cups driver that allows faxing from your desktop.
> 
> As I'm on x86_64 and don't need a scanner much, I looked for other cups 
> drivers that were available from portage and found the 
> Brother MFC-9600 Foomatic/hl1250' driver worked fine for simple printing.

Actually, cups drivers are binaries, so you could just use the x86 
driver on a x86_64 system. It shouldn't really be slower either.

Paul

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Duncan]

Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> posted 45335E2E.7020500@gentoo.org,
excerpted below, on  Mon, 16 Oct 2006 12:25:50 +0200:

> Actually, cups drivers are binaries, so you could just use the x86 
> driver on a x86_64 system. It shouldn't really be slower either.

Need multilib, tho?

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[gentoo-amd64] Brother printers and Linux (was: Printer Setup)

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Monday 16 October 2006 02:29, "Duncan" <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote 
about '[gentoo-amd64]  Re: Printer Setup':
> Are
> those drivers closed source (in which case no way, I prefer FLOSS
> drivers, thanks, and certainly won't be putting any of my money into
> anything without them, "Linux" non-support that closed source ultimately
> is), or open but simply not ported to amd64/x86_64 yet?

IIRC, they do have one GPL'd "driver" but I believe it's just a cups->lpd 
or lpd->cups "gateway driver"...  If you can find their linux pages, they 
do have some documentation about the licensing, but I don't believe their 
licenses pass the DSFG -- I seem to remember pulling their drivers from 
the non-free repository when I was trying to get them to work on my 
laptop.

> Of course, if they simply open the specs
> sufficiently, the community will often provide drivers without company
> effort

No doubt.  I'd prefer open specifications over open drivers anyday; it 
makes whatever driver exist much more maintainable and portable.  Usually, 
open drivers mean we can reverse-engineer a specification, but that's 
tricky at best.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Printer Setup

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Monday 16 October 2006 05:25, Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@gentoo.org> wrote 
about 'Re: [gentoo-amd64]  Re: Printer Setup':
> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > Probably an MFC-7420, like mine, or possibly one of it's "big
> > brothers." They have cups, lpd, and sane drivers available for x86
> > linux, but no support for other arches (including x86_64) last time I
> > checked.
> Actually, cups drivers are binaries, so you could just use the x86
> driver on a x86_64 system. It shouldn't really be slower either.

That makes sense.  I know the sane drivers are 32-bit libraries, so my 
64-bit sane instalaltion refused to load them.  I ran into other problems 
with the install (Gentoo isn't offically supported) and I've had good luck 
with trying alternate printer drivers on other systems (including while I 
was on Windows) so I just did that.  I hear those issue with the install 
are either fixed or have been clearly documented with workarounds.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh

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