[gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Marcel Treis]

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Hi List,

since my machine crashes very often especially when emerging, wich seems
to be some problem between gentoo-amd64 and nvidia-kernel, i have
decided to go "nv" until the issue is resolved. My problem is that i
have a dual-monitor-setup, wich i dont seem to configure right. Does
anybody of you have

a) a dual-monitor-setup using the generic "nv"-driver and could send me
the xorg.xonf?

or

b) any information concerning the above mentioned problem wich id didnt
find?

Thanks alot!

- --


Marcel Treis
	trei4702@uni-trier.de

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Duncan]

Marcel Treis posted <42D2498D.90001@uni-trier.de>, excerpted below,  on
Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:27:25 +0200:

> since my machine crashes very often especially when emerging, wich seems
> to be some problem between gentoo-amd64 and nvidia-kernel, i have decided
> to go "nv" until the issue is resolved. My problem is that i have a
> dual-monitor-setup, wich i dont seem to configure right. Does anybody of
> you have
> 
> a) a dual-monitor-setup using the generic "nv"-driver and could send me
> the xorg.xonf?

I run dual monitor here, but switched from Nvidia to ATI some time ago, 
because I decided proprietaryware kernel drivers were no longer acceptable
to me, with idealism and practicality both playing a role, and NVidia
simply doesn't provide enough specifications for their chips to make any
of the fancier functions, including dual output, work very well if at all
in the open source drivers.

More directly to your setup, you say you have dual monitors, but don't
mention whether that's on dual cards, or dual outputs on the /same/ card
(aka "twinview"). As far as I am aware, the open "nv" driver doesn't
support dual outputs on the same card /at/ /all/, again, because NVidia's
implementation is proprietary and the required info to interface with
it in dual output mode simply hasn't been available, altho it's possible
someone has reverse engineered a bit more, recently, and that's changed,
since I used the drivers back in the XFree86 4.0 to 4.1 era.  If you have
dual cards, each with its own output, that may work or not.  It depends on
the open source driver, not on NVidia so much.  (However, note that it's
possible some of the better driver devs have chosen not to work with
NVidia because NVidia is so obstinate about working with them.  Of course,
there are always other options available to the developer skilled enough
in both hardware and software to be good at drivers, and if they feel they
are beating their head against the wall, they could easily find other more
fruitful ways to spend their time.  Thus, even where the problem isn't
direct NVidia interference, it could be that the open drivers for them
remain very minimalistic and basic, comparatively, simply because those
that can improve them don't find it worth their while to do so.)

Anyway, dual output ATI Radeon 9200s (or the 9200SEs, as I have) are now
pretty cheap, less than $50 @ Fry's when I got mine a year ago and they've
dropped to < $40 since then, when I checked a couple months ago, and the
open source native xord drivers for them are **MUCH** better and **MUCH**
better supported, so if you can spare $40, that's very possibly the better
route to go.

Alternatively, as I said, try multiple boards.  Otherwise, from my
experience up until the switch to xorg at least, support for twinview is
/only/ available in the proprietary drivers.  Again, it's possible that
has changed with newer xorg, but if so, I've seen no hint of it in posts
or elsewhere, and I'd certainly note it if I did, because I follow
multi-monitor mode developments quite closely, when I see them.  Of
course, I could still have entirely missed this one, but...

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Kyle Liddell]

What kernel/video card/nvidia driver version/motherboard/etc are you
using?  Anything special in your X config file?  Do you have sideband
addressing or fastwrites enabled?  If it happens while emerging, prehaps
your CPU is getting hot enough that your video card gets too much heat
going on and locks up?  Does it only happen with TwinView, or with a
single monitor with the nvidia driver?  Do you have a power hungry video
card and a small power supply? 
I'm using the nvidia driver with my geforce 6800gt and I've had no
problems at all.  I haven't used TwinView since I got back home from
school (no desk space for an extra monitor) but it worked fine for me.
The only time I have any problems is when I enable the "EXPERIMENTAL!
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!" XRender hardware acceleration.

On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 12:27 +0200, Marcel Treis wrote:

> b) any information concerning the above mentioned problem wich id didnt
> find?
> 
> Thanks alot!


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Jared Lindsay]

I just had a thought on the problem...if you have one of the newer
cards (like a 6800), what size power supply do you have?  Is it
sufficient to handle your video card, processor, and various drives?

On 7/11/05, Kyle Liddell <kyle@foobox.homelinux.net> wrote:
> What kernel/video card/nvidia driver version/motherboard/etc are you
> using?  Anything special in your X config file?  Do you have sideband
> addressing or fastwrites enabled?  If it happens while emerging, prehaps
> your CPU is getting hot enough that your video card gets too much heat
> going on and locks up?  Does it only happen with TwinView, or with a
> single monitor with the nvidia driver?  Do you have a power hungry video
> card and a small power supply?
> I'm using the nvidia driver with my geforce 6800gt and I've had no
> problems at all.  I haven't used TwinView since I got back home from
> school (no desk space for an extra monitor) but it worked fine for me.
> The only time I have any problems is when I enable the "EXPERIMENTAL!
> USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!" XRender hardware acceleration.
> 
> On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 12:27 +0200, Marcel Treis wrote:
> 
> > b) any information concerning the above mentioned problem wich id didnt
> > find?
> >
> > Thanks alot!
> 
> 
> --
> gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
>

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Kyle Liddell]

I've got an Antec 400W PSU (can't seem to find the specs on the Antec
website, but I can grab the ratings off the supply itself it if you need
them), pushing an A64 3500, the 6800GT, a 3com pci NIC, SB Live, two IDE
IDE hdds and two optical IDE drives.  I've never had any weird problems,
so it seems that the PSU is enough for this computer.

On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 13:41 -0800, Jared Lindsay wrote:
> I just had a thought on the problem...if you have one of the newer
> cards (like a 6800), what size power supply do you have?  Is it
> sufficient to handle your video card, processor, and various drives?


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Jared Lindsay]

Wow, that is almost identical to my system.  The only problem I had
was with my PSU (was 380W Antec), but it was related to turning on.  I
would say you are fine in the PSU department.  So...how is your
ventilation?

On 7/11/05, Kyle Liddell <kyle@foobox.homelinux.net> wrote:
> I've got an Antec 400W PSU (can't seem to find the specs on the Antec
> website, but I can grab the ratings off the supply itself it if you need
> them), pushing an A64 3500, the 6800GT, a 3com pci NIC, SB Live, two IDE
> IDE hdds and two optical IDE drives.  I've never had any weird problems,
> so it seems that the PSU is enough for this computer.
> 
> On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 13:41 -0800, Jared Lindsay wrote:
> > I just had a thought on the problem...if you have one of the newer
> > cards (like a 6800), what size power supply do you have?  Is it
> > sufficient to handle your video card, processor, and various drives?
> 
> 
> --
> gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
>

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Marcel Treis]

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Kyle Liddell wrote:
> What kernel/video card/nvidia driver version/motherboard/etc are you
> using?

I do use the following Software:
*media-video/nvidia-kernel-1.0.6629-r4	(i think i tried other versions too)
*sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.6.11-r11

Following my Hardware:
*A64 2800
*MSI K8N Neo (nForce 3 250Gb)
*MSI FX5900-ZT
*Zalman 400W PSU
Both video card and CPU have a Zalman AlCu on Top.


  Anything special in your X config file?

Not as far as I can see, but i included the file nonetheless.


  Do you have sideband
> addressing or fastwrites enabled?

Well, i'm a bit ashamed to say, but i dont know where to get that info :|


If it happens while emerging, prehaps
> your CPU is getting hot enough that your video card gets too much heat
> going on and locks up?

That should not be the problem, since my hardware is well cooled afaik.
In fact i have a second Gentoo installation on this machine (but only a
32 Bit one), wich doesn't show any problems while emerging, even if i
play D2 simutanously.


Does it only happen with TwinView, or with a
> single monitor with the nvidia driver?

I will try that out later, no time to do so until now.


Do you have a power hungry video
> card and a small power supply? 

I dont think so, see my hardware list above.


> I'm using the nvidia driver with my geforce 6800gt and I've had no
> problems at all.  I haven't used TwinView since I got back home from
> school (no desk space for an extra monitor) but it worked fine for me.
> The only time I have any problems is when I enable the "EXPERIMENTAL!
> USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!" XRender hardware acceleration.

Where would that option be, just so i can check? (Though i do not think
i would have activated some option like that *g*)


Thanks for your help!

- --


Marcel Treis
	trei4702@uni-trier.de

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[-- Attachment #2: xorg.conf --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 4912 bytes --]

# **********************************************************************
# ServerLayout sections.
# **********************************************************************


Section "ServerLayout"
	Identifier	"Dual-Head nVIDIA"
	Screen		0	"Screen0"	0 0
	InputDevice	"Mouse"		"CorePointer"
	InputDevice	"Keyboard"	"CoreKeyboard"
#	Option		"BlankTime"	"10"
#	Option		"SuspendTime"	"13"
#	Option		"OffTime"	"15"
EndSection




# **********************************************************************
# Files section.  This allows default font and rgb paths to be set
# **********************************************************************


Section "Files"
        RgbPath         "/usr/lib/X11/rgb"
	FontPath 	"/usr/share/fonts/misc"
	FontPath 	"/usr/share/fonts/75dpi:unscaled"
	FontPath 	"/usr/share/fonts/100dpi:unscaled"
	FontPath 	"/usr/share/fonts/TTF"
	FontPath 	"/usr/local/share/fonts"
	FontPath 	"/usr/share/fonts"
	FontPath 	"/usr/share/fonts/cyrillic"
        ModulePath      "/usr/lib/modules"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/misc/"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/TTF/"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/Type1/"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/CID/"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/misc"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi:unscaled"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi:unscaled"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/TTF"
        FontPath        "/usr/local/share/fonts"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts"
        FontPath        "/usr/share/fonts/cyrillic"
EndSection




# **********************************************************************
# Module section -- this is an optional section which is used to specify
# which run-time loadable modules to load when the X server starts up.
# **********************************************************************


Section "Module"
        Load	"extmod"
        Load	"dri"
        Load	"dbe"
        Load	"record"
        Load	"xtrap"
        Load	"glx"
        Load	"type1"
        Load	"freetype"
EndSection




# **********************************************************************
# Server flags section.  This contains various server-wide Options.
# **********************************************************************


Section "ServerFlags"
#	Option		"off time"	"5"
#	Option		"Xinerama"	"on"
EndSection




# **********************************************************************
# Input devices
# **********************************************************************

# **********************************************************************
# Core keyboard's InputDevice section
# **********************************************************************


Section "InputDevice"
	Identifier	"Keyboard"
	Driver		"keyboard"
	Option		"XkbRules"	"xfree86"
	Option		"XkbModel"	"pc104"
	Option		"XkbLayout"	"de"
	Option		"XkbVariant"	"nodeadkeys"
EndSection




# **********************************************************************
# Core Pointer's InputDevice section
# **********************************************************************


Section "InputDevice"
	Identifier	"Mouse"
	Driver		"mouse"
	Option		"CorePointer"
	Option		"Protocol"	"Auto"
	Option		"Device"	"/dev/input/mice"
	Option		"Buttons"	"6"
	Option		"ZAxisMapping"	"5 6"
	Option		"Emulate3Buttons"	"no"
EndSection




# **********************************************************************
# Monitor section
# **********************************************************************


Section "Monitor"
	Identifier	"Monitor0"
	VendorName	"PHILIPS"
	ModelName	"170S"
	HorizSync 64.0
	VertRefresh 60.0
	Option 		"DPMS"
EndSection




# **********************************************************************
# Graphics device section
# **********************************************************************


Section "Device"
        Identifier	"Card0"
        Driver		"nvidia"
        VendorName	"nVidia Corporation"
        BoardName	"Unknown Board"
        BusID		"PCI:1:0:0"
	Option		"CRT2Position"  "RightOf"
	Option		"TwinView"
	Option		"MetaModes"  "1280x1024,1280x1024"
	Option		"TwinViewOrientation"      "RightOf"
#	Option		"SecondMonitorHorizSync"   "64.0"
	Option		"SecondMonitorHorizSync"   "UseEdidFreqs"
#	Option		"SecondMonitorVertRefresh" "60.0"
	Option		"SecondMonitorVertRefresh" "UseEdidFreqs"
	Option		"RenderAccel"		#neu
	Option		"HWcursor"		#neu
EndSection




# **********************************************************************
# Screen sections.
# **********************************************************************


Section "Screen"
	Identifier	"Screen0"
	Device		"Card0"
	Monitor		"Monitor0"
	SubSection "Display"
		Virtual		2560 1024
		Modes 		"640x480 800x600 1024x768 1280x1024"
		ViewPort 	0 0
		Depth		24
	EndSubSection
	DefaultDepth	24
EndSection

Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Benny Pedersen]

On Mon, July 11, 2005 12:27, Marcel Treis wrote:
> since my machine crashes very often especially when emerging, wich seems
> to be some problem between gentoo-amd64 and nvidia-kernel,

latest kernel 2.6.12-r4 and unstable nvidia-kernel nvidia-glx is stable
here on my amd64 i remember using stable nvidia-kernel :-)



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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Marco Matthies]

Marcel Treis wrote:
> Kyle Liddell wrote:
>> Do you have sideband
>> addressing or fastwrites enabled?
> Well, i'm a bit ashamed to say, but i dont know where to get that info :|

If you have the nvidia kernel module loaded, it should be available by
cat /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/status
(not exactly sure, i have the opensource driver activated as well, and
then this file is not there).
cat /etc/modules.d/nvidia
will show you the contents of the nvidia kernel module configuration
file. note that any changes made here need to be written to the
confiuration file really used (/etc/modules.conf) with modules-update.
The modules.d directory is used to make this configuration a bit more
modular (no pun intended ;)

FYI, i had exactly the same problems as you (X11 would go to 100% CPU
and thus lock up the machine when alt-tabbing in gnome no matter what
the load, i could only kill it via ssh) and also had to solve this
problem by switching to nv, thereby losing dual-head. So you're not
alone :) I also think there is a long thread in the gentoo forums
dedicated to this topic (titled "x11 crashes" or "x11 uses 100%CPU" or
something), but as far as I remember, there weren't any good solutions.
Hopefully newer combinations of kernel/nvidia-kernel will solve this
problem...

Marco
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Marcel Treis]

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Marco Matthies wrote:

> If you have the nvidia kernel module loaded, it should be available by
> cat /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/status

I do have "Side Band Adressing" enabled, "Fast Writes" is disabled.
I am currently running a test with the "RenderAccel" Option disabled in
xorg.conf, if that doesnt help i'll try to disable abovementioned
Options in /etc/modules.d/nvidia.


> [...]had to solve this
> problem by switching to nv, thereby losing dual-head.

Losing dual-head is NOT an Option ;-)


Thanks for your help, i'll keep trying :-)

- --


Marcel Treis
	trei4702@uni-trier.de

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[gentoo-amd64] Re: xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Duncan]

Marcel Treis posted <42D39FE8.5010808@uni-trier.de>, excerpted below,  on
Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:48:08 +0200:

>> [...]had to solve this
>> problem by switching to nv, thereby losing dual-head.
> 
> Losing dual-head is NOT an Option ;-)

LOL!  My thoughts exactly!  (I'm running a single Radeon 9200SE with dual
output, using the xorg native/open drivers, driving two 400x300 mm (21")
monitors in 2048x1536 resolution each.)

-- 
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Michal Žeravík]

Marcel Treis wrote:

> Marco Matthies wrote:
>
> >If you have the nvidia kernel module loaded, it should be available by
> >cat /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/status
>
>
> I do have "Side Band Adressing" enabled, "Fast Writes" is disabled.
> I am currently running a test with the "RenderAccel" Option disabled in
> xorg.conf, if that doesnt help i'll try to disable abovementioned
> Options in /etc/modules.d/nvidia.
>
are there options for pci-e cards as well?

>
> >[...]had to solve this
> >problem by switching to nv, thereby losing dual-head.
>
>
> Losing dual-head is NOT an Option ;-)
>
>
> Thanks for your help, i'll keep trying :-)
>
> --
>
>
> Marcel Treis
>     trei4702@uni-trier.de
>
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Kyle Liddell]

On Tue, 2005-07-12 at 08:40 +0200, Marcel Treis wrote:
> I do use the following Software:
> *media-video/nvidia-kernel-1.0.6629-r4	(i think i tried other versions too)
> *sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.6.11-r11
I'm using nvidia-kernel 1.0.7667, xorg 6.8.2-r2 and gentoo-sources
2.6.12-gentoo-r4 (~amd64 as you can see)  I've always run unstable on
here so I don't know if that is exactly the problem, but I would give
the latest drivers a try.

> Following my Hardware:
> *A64 2800
> *MSI K8N Neo (nForce 3 250Gb)
> *MSI FX5900-ZT
> *Zalman 400W PSU
> Both video card and CPU have a Zalman AlCu on Top.
Doesn't seem like your PSU is too weak then.

> I do have "Side Band Adressing" enabled, "Fast Writes" is disabled.
You might give things a try with SBA off too...however, if you ever do
get a working setup I would see if you can turn those back on.  If you
don't do much 3d stuff it won't matter, but in good old UT classic my
framerates doubled when I enabled Fast Writes.


> > The only time I have any problems is when I enable the "EXPERIMENTAL!
> > USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!" XRender hardware acceleration.
> 
> Where would that option be, just so i can check? (Though i do not think
> i would have activated some option like that *g*)

That's the RenderAccel option that you said you've disabled.  There's
also AllowGLXWithComposite that makes RenderAccel even more unstable,
but I didn't see that in your config file.

I would definitely give the latest drivers a try.  Oh also, you might
try the different AGPGART options (whether to use the kernel supplied
driver or the nvidia supplied driver).  Again, I've never had a problem
with the nvidia drivers unless I use the XComposite extensions.
(Actually I can enable RenderAccel and load the XComposite extension
with no problems, but as soon as I run "xcompmgr" it seems to start a
2-3 hour countdown timer until X goes to 100%cpu, xcompmgr eats all my
memory, and then X crashes).  

One thing: in your original mail you said that your "machine crashes".
What exactly do you mean?  X crashes and goes back to the console?  X
locks up, but can use machine remotely?  System locks
up/crashes/reboots?

If just X dies I'd say you just need to keep kicking around drivers and
options, but if your system locks up/crashes I'd still look into
something involving hardware...maybe run nvidia-settings while you try
to crash the system and see if the GPU temp gets too high, etc etc.
(What are your CPU/system/GPU temps during idle and compile anyway (if
disabling RenderAccel didn't fix the problem)).

Kyle


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Marcel Treis]

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Kyle Liddell wrote:

> [...]

Thanks for those tips, i'll keep on trying.


> One thing: in your original mail you said that your "machine crashes".
> What exactly do you mean?  X crashes and goes back to the console?  X
> locks up, but can use machine remotely?  System locks
> up/crashes/reboots?

I admit that was a bit unprecise. What happens is that sometimes the X
Server stops responding, meanwhile there's A LOT of hard disk activity
(swapping?). I also encountered the situation that the window
decorations (symbols for closing, minimizing, etc.) are gone and
basically just about all KDE functionality is unavailable, i can only
see the topmost window (and i think that windows from different desktops
were mixed into one desktop too). In this situation i also got some log
entries in Strg+Alt+F12 saying smth. about HighMem, wich was full.


> If just X dies I'd say you just need to keep kicking around drivers and
> options, but if your system locks up/crashes I'd still look into
> something involving hardware...maybe run nvidia-settings while you try
> to crash the system and see if the GPU temp gets too high, etc etc.
> (What are your CPU/system/GPU temps during idle and compile anyway (if
> disabling RenderAccel didn't fix the problem)).

I will report on that shortly, after i was able to do those test. Though
i dont think it could be thermal problems since i had no problems at all
witch my second gentoo installation (gentoo-i386).


Thanks for all those proposals and good night from germany for now.  :-)


- --


Marcel Treis
	trei4702@uni-trier.de

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Mike Owen]

On 7/11/05, Marcel Treis <trei4702@uni-trier.de> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Kyle Liddell wrote:
> > What kernel/video card/nvidia driver version/motherboard/etc are you
> > using?
> 
> I do use the following Software:
> *media-video/nvidia-kernel-1.0.6629-r4  (i think i tried other versions too)
> *sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.6.11-r11
> 
> Following my Hardware:
> *A64 2800
> *MSI K8N Neo (nForce 3 250Gb)
> *MSI FX5900-ZT
> *Zalman 400W PSU
> Both video card and CPU have a Zalman AlCu on Top.
> 
> 


I was unable to get those drivers to work on an em64t box, as soon as
I switched to nvidia-kernel-1.0-7664 it worked perfectly. This is
running 2.6.12-gentoo-r4

Mike

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] xorg Dual-Head Layout with nv-Driver?

[Marcel Treis]

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He folks,

thanks for all your proposals, but sadly nothing quite worked, so i have
to stick with my 32-bit gentoo for now, since i lack the time for
running experiments.

Thanks again for your help,

	I'll be back!


- --


Marcel Treis
	trei4702@uni-trier.de

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