From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5861413838B for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:56:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3FEC2E0B74; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:56:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from resqmta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net [69.252.207.36]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB68DE096D for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:56:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta24.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.76]) by resqmta-ch2-04v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id udiH1o0021ei1Bg01ew6zo; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:56:06 +0000 Received: from ajax ([24.11.47.14]) by omta24.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id uew61o0030JMh7c3kew65z; Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:56:06 +0000 Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:55:58 -0400 From: Frank Peters To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Boycott Systemd Message-Id: <20140923105558.eaed8b57d00ddd92818cec55@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20140921132548.d4ad54724473a2aeee688daa@comcast.net> <20140921143059.c3c16dfdeab6f65280b7caa6@comcast.net> <20140921192043.GA9652@crud> <20140921171301.5f008b3bd12c21c2f8fdd67e@comcast.net> <20140921202600.08d082d88014228172007477@comcast.net> <20140921220253.29b05782092a062c7148cbed@comcast.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.4.2 (GTK+ 2.24.24; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1411484166; bh=soBTZQ30/2ZajxX//y02AZ8KdfcjmXQd98x17PlTxo8=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Mime-Version: Content-Type; b=NZNY8wQ30DXBQiP1n6AAYtBkphnWj6XoylOnRRENYdxNdetxgUARHtYfM2tDUbkT3 TmdemdW82r1lyXun/Kho/aMrWMHcDp30dl3FgeNNh1097Tn7RT3zTGnLQ777iPPHt1 rUmi3jKtFe8LBDVlFxWbDfDt8rNoKWLXACGEltP2zFw7ouaO0QRvFO6Xdz2i6rsDRW VfzW6HBpd4WF+bkAlEfigUIkopQ4KCCQDRWK6zpbMEatT/vUVqawa4FiG2fL6MYnGu xa/txuZu0tiPwfYZoah5CXvYi94D7ooEeTmf63lLp/QJM4MkFVLbH22Woa76ngSHBE dsCTI4nrC5nNQ== X-Archives-Salt: a60b9509-64f6-432e-8b82-1d5766b69d2f X-Archives-Hash: 914102f3fede7341cc0f8b94c458a7cf On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 16:14:11 +0000 (UTC) Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote: > > Again, bottom line, report kernel breakage of userspace, the same kernel > cycle that breakage happens if at all possible, which means testing an > early enough kernel rc (rc3 is good) > That certainly is good advice but unfortunately, even if I had the desire, I do not have the wherewithal to follow kernel development too closely. But the next time I see breakage with a new kernel I will fire off a quick message to LKML about it. Also, my example of the changes in USB device nodes is not the only recent occurrence of /dev tree modifications. The kernel folks also removed the static /dev/rtc, or real-time clock device node. In place there is now /dev/rtc1, /dev/rtc2, etc., and the intention is to dynamically allocate these nodes with udev. This change broke my use space but it was easy to fix. But does this represent a creep toward having the kernel depend on the user-space udev (or its equivalents)? Because I don't closely follow kernel development I cannot say for certain, but it sure seems that way. Let's face it. The static device tree is "old" Unix and is way out of the current fashion. The "old" way is to know your hardware and manually configure accordingly. The "new" way is to have the system determine your hardware and do the configuration for you (based on a distributed database of zillions of entries, possibilities, and permutations).