[gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

Hi,
   A discussion on another list made me realize I'm a little tired of
Gnome. It does what I need, mostly, but it feels sort of old and dry.
I haven't run KDE in years but I'm hesitant to build it and keep it up
to date. I really think I'd like something more minimalistic. I ran
fluxbox years ago and liked that it was small and fast but at the time
getting to apps was a hand-crafted menu editing task that I'd rather
not repeat today.

   QUESTION: Is there something small, fast but also easy to use in
terms of the environment automatically creating menus when apps are
added or removed with emerge?

   From a pure-fun standpoint something 3D might be fun, but I don't
need it and expect that my old ATI Radeon X300 card probably isn't up
to the task anyway.

   How do others choose a window manager and what do you value in your
window manager that makes you stick with it?

Thanks,
Mark

lightning ~ # eix | grep x11-wm
* x11-wm/aewm++
* x11-wm/aewm++-goodies
* x11-wm/aewm
* x11-wm/afterstep
* x11-wm/amiwm
* x11-wm/awesome
* x11-wm/blackbox
* x11-wm/compiz
* x11-wm/compiz-fusion
* x11-wm/ctwm
* x11-wm/dwm
* x11-wm/echinus
* x11-wm/emerald
* x11-wm/enlightenment
* x11-wm/evilwm
* x11-wm/fluxbox
* x11-wm/flwm
* x11-wm/fvwm
* x11-wm/icewm
* x11-wm/ion
* x11-wm/jwm
* x11-wm/larswm
* x11-wm/lwm
* x11-wm/matchbox
* x11-wm/matchbox-common
* x11-wm/matchbox-desktop
* x11-wm/matchbox-panel
* x11-wm/matchbox-window-manager
[I] x11-wm/metacity
* x11-wm/openbox
* x11-wm/oroborus
* x11-wm/oroborus-extras
* x11-wm/pekwm
* x11-wm/plwm
* x11-wm/ratpoison
* x11-wm/sawfish
* x11-wm/selectwm
* x11-wm/stumpwm
* x11-wm/treewm
[I] x11-wm/twm
* x11-wm/vtwm
* x11-wm/windowlab
* x11-wm/windowmaker
* x11-wm/wm2
* x11-wm/wmii
* x11-wm/xmonad
* x11-wm/xmonad-contrib
lightning ~ #

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Alex Alexander]

fluxbox is a nice, lightweight, usable WM :)

--
Alex Alexander || wired
Gentoo QT && KDE Herd Tester
http://www.linuxized.com



On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 15:53, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>   A discussion on another list made me realize I'm a little tired of
> Gnome. It does what I need, mostly, but it feels sort of old and dry.
> I haven't run KDE in years but I'm hesitant to build it and keep it up
> to date. I really think I'd like something more minimalistic. I ran
> fluxbox years ago and liked that it was small and fast but at the time
> getting to apps was a hand-crafted menu editing task that I'd rather
> not repeat today.
>
>   QUESTION: Is there something small, fast but also easy to use in
> terms of the environment automatically creating menus when apps are
> added or removed with emerge?
>
>   From a pure-fun standpoint something 3D might be fun, but I don't
> need it and expect that my old ATI Radeon X300 card probably isn't up
> to the task anyway.
>
>   How do others choose a window manager and what do you value in your
> window manager that makes you stick with it?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> lightning ~ # eix | grep x11-wm
> * x11-wm/aewm++
> * x11-wm/aewm++-goodies
> * x11-wm/aewm
> * x11-wm/afterstep
> * x11-wm/amiwm
> * x11-wm/awesome
> * x11-wm/blackbox
> * x11-wm/compiz
> * x11-wm/compiz-fusion
> * x11-wm/ctwm
> * x11-wm/dwm
> * x11-wm/echinus
> * x11-wm/emerald
> * x11-wm/enlightenment
> * x11-wm/evilwm
> * x11-wm/fluxbox
> * x11-wm/flwm
> * x11-wm/fvwm
> * x11-wm/icewm
> * x11-wm/ion
> * x11-wm/jwm
> * x11-wm/larswm
> * x11-wm/lwm
> * x11-wm/matchbox
> * x11-wm/matchbox-common
> * x11-wm/matchbox-desktop
> * x11-wm/matchbox-panel
> * x11-wm/matchbox-window-manager
> [I] x11-wm/metacity
> * x11-wm/openbox
> * x11-wm/oroborus
> * x11-wm/oroborus-extras
> * x11-wm/pekwm
> * x11-wm/plwm
> * x11-wm/ratpoison
> * x11-wm/sawfish
> * x11-wm/selectwm
> * x11-wm/stumpwm
> * x11-wm/treewm
> [I] x11-wm/twm
> * x11-wm/vtwm
> * x11-wm/windowlab
> * x11-wm/windowmaker
> * x11-wm/wm2
> * x11-wm/wmii
> * x11-wm/xmonad
> * x11-wm/xmonad-contrib
> lightning ~ #
>
>

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Alex Alexander<alex.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
> fluxbox is a nice, lightweight, usable WM :)
>
> --
> Alex Alexander || wired
> Gentoo QT && KDE Herd Tester
> http://www.linuxized.com
>
>

Yep. And so small I built it by the time your response came back and
am answering your message from within it. Granted, black screen and
the menus don't see any of the apps I have installed, so that's the
same old problem. Isn't there some app for automatically picking up
apps on putting the menu together auto-magically?

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Martin Herrman]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Alex Alexander
<alex.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> fluxbox is a nice, lightweight, usable WM :)

I have used IceWM (http://www.icewm.org/) for years on an old P2
233MHz with 64Mb RAM. But you had to edit the menu by editing a text
file.

Ubuntu has a lightweight version (Xubuntu) which uses XFCE
(http://www.xfce.org/). You could download a xubuntu iso image and run
it from the live-cd to experience it's features.

XFCE seems to have a more active development (more recent releases)
than IceWM. That's also true for the e-builds:

http://www.gentoo-portage.com/xfce-base/xfce4/ChangeLog#ptabs

HTH,

Martin

P.S. anyone noticed that this time I didn't forget to send only plain
text instead of all the HTML stuff? :-D

> --
> Alex Alexander || wired
> Gentoo QT && KDE Herd Tester
> http://www.linuxized.com

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Martin Herrman]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yep. And so small I built it by the time your response came back and
> am answering your message from within it. Granted, black screen and
> the menus don't see any of the apps I have installed, so that's the
> same old problem. Isn't there some app for automatically picking up
> apps on putting the menu together auto-magically?
>
> Cheers,
> Mark

"The Xfce 4 Appfinder is part of the Xfce 4 Desktop Environment and
features application search on the whole system. It searches for
.desktop files based on the freedesktop spec and makes an index of the
found apps."

Source: xfce website:
http://www.xfce.org/documentation/4.2/manuals/xfce4-appfinder

Does Gentoo use these .desktop files?

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Marc Joliet]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1462 bytes --]

Am Wed, 17 Jun 2009 06:10:42 -0700
schrieb Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com>:

> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Alex Alexander<alex.alexander@gmail.com> wrote:
> > fluxbox is a nice, lightweight, usable WM :)
> >
> > --
> > Alex Alexander || wired
> > Gentoo QT && KDE Herd Tester
> > http://www.linuxized.com
> >
> >
> 
> Yep. And so small I built it by the time your response came back and
> am answering your message from within it. Granted, black screen and
> the menus don't see any of the apps I have installed, so that's the
> same old problem. Isn't there some app for automatically picking up
> apps on putting the menu together auto-magically?

I used to use fluxbox, though switched to awesome in the meantime. The same
thing irritated me, too. There is the fluxbox-generate_menu script, but it
produces a somewhat scarce menu. So I used fbpanel:

marcec@marcec ~ % eix fbpanel
[I] x11-misc/fbpanel
     Available versions:  4.12
     Installed versions:  4.12(11:50:28 01.04.2009)
     Homepage:            http://fbpanel.sourceforge.net/
     Description:         light-weight X11 desktop panel

That comes with a (not 100%, I believe science packages, e.g. gEDA, don't show
up) complete menu.

> Cheers,
> Mark

HTH
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
Lt. Frank Drebin: "It's true what they say: cops and women don't mix. Like
eating a spoonful of Drāno; sure, it'll clean you out, but it'll leave you
hollow inside."

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Dmitri Pogosyan]

>    How do others choose a window manager and what do you value in your
> window manager that makes you stick with it?
> 

I value most what most modern WM's do not implement - large viewports on
virtual desktops. Those WM's with distinct workspaces are such a regression
for me ...

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Paul Hartman]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>   A discussion on another list made me realize I'm a little tired of
> Gnome. It does what I need, mostly, but it feels sort of old and dry.
> I haven't run KDE in years but I'm hesitant to build it and keep it up
> to date. I really think I'd like something more minimalistic. I ran
> fluxbox years ago and liked that it was small and fast but at the time
> getting to apps was a hand-crafted menu editing task that I'd rather
> not repeat today.
>
>   QUESTION: Is there something small, fast but also easy to use in
> terms of the environment automatically creating menus when apps are
> added or removed with emerge?
>
>   From a pure-fun standpoint something 3D might be fun, but I don't
> need it and expect that my old ATI Radeon X300 card probably isn't up
> to the task anyway.
>
>   How do others choose a window manager and what do you value in your
> window manager that makes you stick with it?

I use KDE4 and keep XFCE as a backup. I use KDM as login manager and
it easily lets me choose which one I want. I use only XFCE on my
laptop because compiling gnome or KDE is just too much work for it. I
could easily use XFCE (or Gnome) as primary desktop environment and be
happy, but I'm just used to KDE.

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Paul
Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>   A discussion on another list made me realize I'm a little tired of
>> Gnome. It does what I need, mostly, but it feels sort of old and dry.
>> I haven't run KDE in years but I'm hesitant to build it and keep it up
>> to date. I really think I'd like something more minimalistic. I ran
>> fluxbox years ago and liked that it was small and fast but at the time
>> getting to apps was a hand-crafted menu editing task that I'd rather
>> not repeat today.
>>
>>   QUESTION: Is there something small, fast but also easy to use in
>> terms of the environment automatically creating menus when apps are
>> added or removed with emerge?
>>
>>   From a pure-fun standpoint something 3D might be fun, but I don't
>> need it and expect that my old ATI Radeon X300 card probably isn't up
>> to the task anyway.
>>
>>   How do others choose a window manager and what do you value in your
>> window manager that makes you stick with it?
>
> I use KDE4 and keep XFCE as a backup. I use KDM as login manager and
> it easily lets me choose which one I want. I use only XFCE on my
> laptop because compiling gnome or KDE is just too much work for it. I
> could easily use XFCE (or Gnome) as primary desktop environment and be
> happy, but I'm just used to KDE.
>
>

Hi Paul,
   I do a lot of audio work using apps and a kernel (rt-sources) from
the pro-audio overlay. Jack, Ardour, etc. Really low latency and NO
long window manager
delays are more important for me that they probably are for others. I
ran KDE years ago and it just didn't work very well, but in those days
even Gnome wasn't very good so I used fluxbox which was great. Well,
today Gnome is fine, and maybe KDE would be also. Historically it just
wasn't a good fit more me in the past.

   I guess the other thing that I'm interested in is getting beyond
this "flat/old Gnome is sort of like Windows" sensation that I am
feeling right now so to warrant the effort to actually use something I
suppose I am really looking for something with a really different feel
but it still really works in terms of getting jobs done. Something
that makes me feel good about even firing up the desktop.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Bob Sanders]

Mark Knecht, mused, then expounded:
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Paul
> Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>   QUESTION: Is there something small, fast but also easy to use in
> >> terms of the environment automatically creating menus when apps are
> >> added or removed with emerge?
> >>
> >>   How do others choose a window manager and what do you value in your
> >> window manager that makes you stick with it?
> >
> >
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
>    I guess the other thing that I'm interested in is getting beyond
> this "flat/old Gnome is sort of like Windows" sensation that I am
> feeling right now so to warrant the effort to actually use something I
> suppose I am really looking for something with a really different feel
> but it still really works in terms of getting jobs done. Something
> that makes me feel good about even firing up the desktop.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark
> 
> 

Enlightenment 0.16 - either you like it so that even after switching
to others, you always come back.  Or you just don't get along with it.

The only time I've gone for a lighter weight WM has been on a netbook
where LXDE is run.

Bob
-- 
-  

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Paul Hartman]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>   I do a lot of audio work using apps and a kernel (rt-sources) from
> the pro-audio overlay. Jack, Ardour, etc. Really low latency and NO
> long window manager
> delays are more important for me that they probably are for others. I
> ran KDE years ago and it just didn't work very well, but in those days
> even Gnome wasn't very good so I used fluxbox which was great. Well,
> today Gnome is fine, and maybe KDE would be also. Historically it just
> wasn't a good fit more me in the past.
>
>   I guess the other thing that I'm interested in is getting beyond
> this "flat/old Gnome is sort of like Windows" sensation that I am
> feeling right now so to warrant the effort to actually use something I
> suppose I am really looking for something with a really different feel
> but it still really works in terms of getting jobs done. Something
> that makes me feel good about even firing up the desktop.

Well, if you want something different then KDE4 is definitely
different... for better or for worse :)

XFCE is more similar to Gnome in that both of them remind me of a Mac
OS desktop. (KDE4 is more like Vista/Win7) However, XFCE is a fraction
of the size of KDE or Gnome, which is nice. Being able to compile the
whole thing in just a few minutes is a good change of pace.

Check out http://xwinman.org/ for many other options.

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Frank Peters]

>
>   QUESTION: Is there something small, fast but also easy to use in
> terms of the environment automatically creating menus when apps are
> added or removed with emerge?
>

Openbox is my choice for a window manager.  Openbox is fast and small
and that well suits my minimalistic approach.  Openbox also provides
virtual desktops that are, IMO, indispensable to a graphical interface.

With Openbox there is no automatic method to create menus but the
configuration files are very easy to manually edit.  Once a basic
menu structure is established, a simple cut and paste operation can
be used to quickly update.

There is also a configuration tool available for Openbox, but since
I have never used it I cannot comment about it.

Frank Peters

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Matthias Krebs]

Am Mittwoch 17 Juni 2009 15:10:42 schrieb Mark Knecht:
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 6:03 AM, Alex Alexander<alex.alexander@gmail.com> 
wrote:
> > fluxbox is a nice, lightweight, usable WM :)
> >
> > --
> > Alex Alexander || wired
> > Gentoo QT && KDE Herd Tester
> > http://www.linuxized.com
>
> Yep. And so small I built it by the time your response came back and
> am answering your message from within it. Granted, black screen and
> the menus don't see any of the apps I have installed, so that's the
> same old problem. Isn't there some app for automatically picking up
> apps on putting the menu together auto-magically?
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
x11-misc/menumaker

I use it with openbox, but fluxbox is supported, too. But it's comman-line, not 
automatic. 

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Joseph Booker]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 133 bytes --]

Maybe I am missing something, but what is wrong with
'fluxbox-generate_menu' ? (it's part of fluxbox itself)

-- 
Joseph Booker

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Joseph Booker<joe@neoturbine.net> wrote:
> Maybe I am missing something, but what is wrong with
> 'fluxbox-generate_menu' ? (it's part of fluxbox itself)
>
> --
> Joseph Booker
>

You're not missing anything from my POV. I didn't know about it. It
may address my issues with fluxbox from 5-8 years ago when those sorts
of tools didn't exist.

However, I've run fluxbox and could have gone down that path without
querying the list. (But having done so has allowed me to find out
about tools such as you mention. Anyway, I'm wondering what sorts of
new things folks are using, why they are using them, what they like
about them, etc. Mainly just poking around for ideas.

Thanks,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[The Doctor]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Knecht wrote:

>    QUESTION: Is there something small, fast but also easy to use in
> terms of the environment automatically creating menus when apps are
> added or removed with emerge?

I know you mentioned not really wanting to run one of the /*box/ window
managers because you'd run one before, but something just came to mind.
 I ran Openbox for a few years because it fit just the criteria that you
described, and returning to their website I found a page that describes
how to integrate it with Gnome, so you could still use the menus without
having to hand-edit the menu config file.

I might try that later, actually.

You might also want to look into XFCE to see if it'll work the way you
want it to.  I've played with it a little on my media machine but don't
have a whole lot to say about it right now.

- --

The Doctor [412/724/301/703]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: http://drwho.virtadpt.net/

"Take back, take back, take back the dancefloor!"

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 7:09 AM, The Doctor<drwho@virtadpt.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>>    QUESTION: Is there something small, fast but also easy to use in
>> terms of the environment automatically creating menus when apps are
>> added or removed with emerge?
>
> I know you mentioned not really wanting to run one of the /*box/ window
> managers because you'd run one before, but something just came to mind.
>  I ran Openbox for a few years because it fit just the criteria that you
> described, and returning to their website I found a page that describes
> how to integrate it with Gnome, so you could still use the menus without
> having to hand-edit the menu config file.

Good to know. thanks!

It's not that I don't want to run one of the /*box/ products. More
that I just want a *reasonable* amount of menu management as I install
and uninstall apps.

>
> I might try that later, actually.
>
> You might also want to look into XFCE to see if it'll work the way you
> want it to.  I've played with it a little on my media machine but don't
> have a whole lot to say about it right now.

XFCE seems pretty nice. It has a light feel, menus are handled, at
least in the sense of the apps I had installed and were showing up in
Gnome menus are there in XFCE. I don't like that it doesn't, at least
out of the box on my computer, support multiple file drag & drop
actions, but maybe it supports that sort of thing through cut & paste.
Not sure. (Just thought of that one.)

I did build EWM (E16 I think) this morning. It's quite interesting, in
the sense that there are multiple desktops and things. Very
minimalistic. Seems to have a large list of configurations I can do.
The problem as an uninformed new user is I have no clue how to even
start an app like Firefox! That one will take a bit of study.

Anyway, I appreciate your ideas and inputs. I'll look at openbox this afternoon.

Cheers,
Mark

>
> - --
>
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703]
>
> PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
> WWW: http://drwho.virtadpt.net/
>
> "Take back, take back, take back the dancefloor!"
>
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> Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
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>
>

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> XFCE seems pretty nice. It has a light feel, menus are handled, at
> least in the sense of the apps I had installed and were showing up in
> Gnome menus are there in XFCE. I don't like that it doesn't, at least
> out of the box on my computer, support multiple file drag & drop
> actions, but maybe it supports that sort of thing through cut & paste.
> Not sure. (Just thought of that one.)

Multiple file drag & drop works fine for me in XFCE. I just created a
folder, highlighted 4 icons from my desktop, dragged them into the
folder and voila, there are 4 things in it.

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Paul
Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> XFCE seems pretty nice. It has a light feel, menus are handled, at
>> least in the sense of the apps I had installed and were showing up in
>> Gnome menus are there in XFCE. I don't like that it doesn't, at least
>> out of the box on my computer, support multiple file drag & drop
>> actions, but maybe it supports that sort of thing through cut & paste.
>> Not sure. (Just thought of that one.)
>
> Multiple file drag & drop works fine for me in XFCE. I just created a
> folder, highlighted 4 icons from my desktop, dragged them into the
> folder and voila, there are 4 things in it.

Interesting. Didn't work here for me out of the box. My Gnome desktop
had a bunch of files on it. In XFCE I created a folder, dragged my
mouse across 2 or more of these files. They looked selected but when I
clicked on one of the files and started dragging it the file I clicked
on what the only one deposited in the folder. The other files remained
selected.

I'll look around for some setting about this. Seems very basic though. Strange.

Good to know it should work though.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Paul
> Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> XFCE seems pretty nice. It has a light feel, menus are handled, at
>>> least in the sense of the apps I had installed and were showing up in
>>> Gnome menus are there in XFCE. I don't like that it doesn't, at least
>>> out of the box on my computer, support multiple file drag & drop
>>> actions, but maybe it supports that sort of thing through cut & paste.
>>> Not sure. (Just thought of that one.)
>>
>> Multiple file drag & drop works fine for me in XFCE. I just created a
>> folder, highlighted 4 icons from my desktop, dragged them into the
>> folder and voila, there are 4 things in it.
>
> Interesting. Didn't work here for me out of the box. My Gnome desktop
> had a bunch of files on it. In XFCE I created a folder, dragged my
> mouse across 2 or more of these files. They looked selected but when I
> clicked on one of the files and started dragging it the file I clicked
> on what the only one deposited in the folder. The other files remained
> selected.
>
> I'll look around for some setting about this. Seems very basic though. Strange.
>
> Good to know it should work though.

I'm using xfce 4.6.1 in case you're on a different revision than me.

LXDE is another similar one you may want to check out. I haven't tried
it personally but it looks similar to XFCE, but perhaps even more
lightweight. I think it is a full desktop environment based around the
openbox window manager.

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Paul
Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Paul
>> Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> XFCE seems pretty nice. It has a light feel, menus are handled, at
>>>> least in the sense of the apps I had installed and were showing up in
>>>> Gnome menus are there in XFCE. I don't like that it doesn't, at least
>>>> out of the box on my computer, support multiple file drag & drop
>>>> actions, but maybe it supports that sort of thing through cut & paste.
>>>> Not sure. (Just thought of that one.)
>>>
>>> Multiple file drag & drop works fine for me in XFCE. I just created a
>>> folder, highlighted 4 icons from my desktop, dragged them into the
>>> folder and voila, there are 4 things in it.
>>
>> Interesting. Didn't work here for me out of the box. My Gnome desktop
>> had a bunch of files on it. In XFCE I created a folder, dragged my
>> mouse across 2 or more of these files. They looked selected but when I
>> clicked on one of the files and started dragging it the file I clicked
>> on what the only one deposited in the folder. The other files remained
>> selected.
>>
>> I'll look around for some setting about this. Seems very basic though. Strange.
>>
>> Good to know it should work though.
>
> I'm using xfce 4.6.1 in case you're on a different revision than me.
>
> LXDE is another similar one you may want to check out. I haven't tried
> it personally but it looks similar to XFCE, but perhaps even more
> lightweight. I think it is a full desktop environment based around the
> openbox window manager.
>
>
Paul,
   I found that here drag and drop works in a folder but doesn't work
on the desktop.

   xfce-4.6.1 also.

   lxde is masked here. I might give it a try.

   Not that the voting makes any difference but here's an interesting
site trying to answer some similar quetsions:

http://xwinman.org/vote.php

   Just wandering around and looking at screenshots I find I like a
lot of what I see in fvwm, but I'm hesitant to install it as it seems
to use older glib/gtk+ libraries which means more to maintain. It's
not huge so I'm emerging it to take a look.

   Question gets down to how does one make a decision? Not sure about
any performance metrics. Look and feel is obviously a part of it.
Depth of support - email (good) and forums (not so good for me).

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Bob Sanders]

Mark Knecht, mused, then expounded:
> 
>    Question gets down to how does one make a decision? Not sure about
> any performance metrics. Look and feel is obviously a part of it.
> Depth of support - email (good) and forums (not so good for me).
> 

Does it work for you?  Do you hit some limit that irritates you that
spoils the experience?

All the rest - Depth of support, forums, etc. don't mean anything
if you're constantly irriated whenever you use it.

Bob
-  

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Bob Sanders<rsanders@sgi.com> wrote:
> Mark Knecht, mused, then expounded:
>>
>>    Question gets down to how does one make a decision? Not sure about
>> any performance metrics. Look and feel is obviously a part of it.
>> Depth of support - email (good) and forums (not so good for me).
>>
>
> Does it work for you?  Do you hit some limit that irritates you that
> spoils the experience?
>
> All the rest - Depth of support, forums, etc. don't mean anything
> if you're constantly irriated whenever you use it.
>
> Bob

Very true.

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>   I found that here drag and drop works in a folder but doesn't work
> on the desktop.

When you say you are trying to move them, are you trying to "mv" them,
or just reposition them within the same desktop workspace? (moving the
icon over to the other side of the desktop for example)

If the latter, then yes, it only moves 1 at a time for me as well. I
thought (assumed) you were talking about moving from one directory to
another.

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Paul
Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>   I found that here drag and drop works in a folder but doesn't work
>> on the desktop.
>
> When you say you are trying to move them, are you trying to "mv" them,
> or just reposition them within the same desktop workspace? (moving the
> icon over to the other side of the desktop for example)
>
> If the latter, then yes, it only moves 1 at a time for me as well. I
> thought (assumed) you were talking about moving from one directory to
> another.
>
>

No, I mean drag and drop on the desktop using the mouse, not something
like a 'mv' command. OK, so we're getting the same results.

fvwm crashes when I try to start that one!

So far xfce is the best.

I also tried something called 'E16-Gnome' (part of the EWM package) It
works but I cannot see or feel any difference yet. Maybe it's just
Gnome with a diffeent WM underneath or something?

Cheers,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Paul
> Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>   I found that here drag and drop works in a folder but doesn't work
>>> on the desktop.
>>
>> When you say you are trying to move them, are you trying to "mv" them,
>> or just reposition them within the same desktop workspace? (moving the
>> icon over to the other side of the desktop for example)
>>
>> If the latter, then yes, it only moves 1 at a time for me as well. I
>> thought (assumed) you were talking about moving from one directory to
>> another.
>>
>>
>
> No, I mean drag and drop on the desktop using the mouse, not something
> like a 'mv' command. OK, so we're getting the same results.

Okay, you are moving icons around on the desktop but not actually
moving files to different directories. That's where I was getting
confused. :)

XFCE didn't even have the concept of "a desktop" with icons until the
latest release, IIRC... its lack of a desktop was always one of its
somewhat unique characteristics, but with the latest release it's
become more of a full-featured desktop environment. So that aspect of
it is probably not very mature yet. I would expect the finer touches
such as moving multiple icons to come along in future versions.

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Mark Knecht]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Paul
Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Paul
>> Hartman<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>   I found that here drag and drop works in a folder but doesn't work
>>>> on the desktop.
>>>
>>> When you say you are trying to move them, are you trying to "mv" them,
>>> or just reposition them within the same desktop workspace? (moving the
>>> icon over to the other side of the desktop for example)
>>>
>>> If the latter, then yes, it only moves 1 at a time for me as well. I
>>> thought (assumed) you were talking about moving from one directory to
>>> another.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No, I mean drag and drop on the desktop using the mouse, not something
>> like a 'mv' command. OK, so we're getting the same results.
>
> Okay, you are moving icons around on the desktop but not actually
> moving files to different directories. That's where I was getting
> confused. :)

No, I'm moving files on the desktop. Desktop is a directory and the
files are visible in a terminal if I cd to Desktop. I can create a
folder and 'mv' the files to that folder and 'mv' them back to the
desktop. However, if I select multiple files on the desktop with my
mouse I see all of them selected but only the firs one moves to the
folder with a drag operation.

>
> XFCE didn't even have the concept of "a desktop" with icons until the
> latest release, IIRC... its lack of a desktop was always one of its
> somewhat unique characteristics, but with the latest release it's
> become more of a full-featured desktop environment. So that aspect of
> it is probably not very mature yet. I would expect the finer touches
> such as moving multiple icons to come along in future versions.

OK, that makes sense. They'll get to it if it's important.

This issue seems to come up occasionally. I'll download some zip file
to my desktop and use an archive manager to drag a bunch of stuff out.
Having done that I might delete some audio files but want to keep
others, or I might want to separate them into different folders based
on what I'm going to do with them.

Anyway, we've wasted too much effort on this. It's just a minor annoyance.

Thanks,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-amd64] How do I choose a second window manager?

[Paul Hartman]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Okay, you are moving icons around on the desktop but not actually
>> moving files to different directories. That's where I was getting
>> confused. :)
>
> No, I'm moving files on the desktop. Desktop is a directory and the
> files are visible in a terminal if I cd to Desktop. I can create a
> folder and 'mv' the files to that folder and 'mv' them back to the
> desktop. However, if I select multiple files on the desktop with my
> mouse I see all of them selected but only the firs one moves to the
> folder with a drag operation.

In that case, it does work for me then. I can select multiple files
and drag them into another folder and it works as expected.

My only confusion was thinking I was confused in the first place :)