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* [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
@ 2007-03-08 23:57 Michael George
  2007-03-09  1:36 ` Chris Traylor
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Michael George @ 2007-03-08 23:57 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

I recently upgrade my kernel from 2.6.17 to 2.6.19.  I also upgraded hal
to 0.5.7.1-r3, emul-linux libraries, and some other packages.

I can run vmware-player just fine and my install of XP will run in it,
but all the text is just little boxes.  Luckily, I remember the
important ones (exit, how to focus and release focus, etc), but I cannot
change any options now.

Has anyone else run into this?  Is it perhaps the emulation libraries
being a problem?

-- 
-M

There are 10 kinds of people in this world:
	Those who can count in binary and those who cannot.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-08 23:57 [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable Michael George
@ 2007-03-09  1:36 ` Chris Traylor
  2007-03-09 14:50 ` The Doctor
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Chris Traylor @ 2007-03-09  1:36 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

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On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 18:57 -0500, Michael George wrote:

> I recently upgrade my kernel from 2.6.17 to 2.6.19.  I also upgraded hal
> to 0.5.7.1-r3, emul-linux libraries, and some other packages.
> 
> I can run vmware-player just fine and my install of XP will run in it,
> but all the text is just little boxes.  Luckily, I remember the
> important ones (exit, how to focus and release focus, etc), but I cannot
> change any options now.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this?  Is it perhaps the emulation libraries
> being a problem?

I haven't had this problem, but since you've upgraded your kernel, it
might help to run: 

/opt/vmware/player/bin/vmware-config.pl

which can reset font paths and such. You may also wish to remerge the
player, and see if that helps.
Sorry, I couldn't be of more assistance, but maybe these simple steps
can solve your problem.


> 
> -- 
> -M
> 
> There are 10 kinds of people in this world:
> 	Those who can count in binary and those who cannot.

Chris

--
"Democracy is just a suggestion box for slaves."- Stefan Molyneux

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-08 23:57 [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable Michael George
  2007-03-09  1:36 ` Chris Traylor
@ 2007-03-09 14:50 ` The Doctor
  2007-03-10 14:04   ` Michael George
  2007-03-10 18:56 ` Simon Stelling
  2007-03-12 13:18 ` The Doctor
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: The Doctor @ 2007-03-09 14:50 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 975 bytes --]

Michael George wrote:
> I can run vmware-player just fine and my install of XP will run in it,
> but all the text is just little boxes.  Luckily, I remember the
> important ones (exit, how to focus and release focus, etc), but I cannot
> change any options now.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this?  Is it perhaps the emulation libraries
> being a problem?

Yes - I ran into this with mozilla-firefox-bin (which also seems to have broken
Flash 9) and mplayer-bin a couple of days ago.  This morning I ran an emerge -C
to uninstall all of the packages, re-sync'd my Portage tree, and re-emerged
everything.  Because I'm not in the same physical location as that box, though,
I can't test it yet.  I'll try it tonight after I get home from work, though,
and post my results.

-- 

The Doctor [412/724/301/703]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: http://drwho.virtadpt.net/

Doko ni datte, hito wa tsunagette iru.


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-09 14:50 ` The Doctor
@ 2007-03-10 14:04   ` Michael George
  2007-03-10 14:36     ` Michael George
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Michael George @ 2007-03-10 14:04 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

I have tried re-running vmware-config, emerge -C of vmware player with a
complete reinstall, I even tried version 1.0.3 (which wouldn't start up
right), but none of that worked.  The fonts for the player are still
missing.  BTW, I resync my portage tree daily, so it's not out of date.

Does vmware-player install as binaries?  I guess I didn't watch the
build to see if it doesn...  if so, then maybe my upgrade of the
emul-linux-x86-{baselibs,xlibs,qtlibs,soundlibs,gtklibs,sdl,medialibs} might
have caused the problem.

ldd on vmplayer shows it as statically linked, so it's not a shared
library that's the problem...

qdepends shows shared-mime-info as a dependency, so I tried updating
that...  But that didn't help, either.

I wonder if there's a dependency that is overlooked in the ebuild...  Is there
a way to find that out?

Anyone have any other suggestions?

On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 09:50:05AM -0500, The Doctor wrote:
> Michael George wrote:
> > I can run vmware-player just fine and my install of XP will run in it,
> > but all the text is just little boxes.  Luckily, I remember the
> > important ones (exit, how to focus and release focus, etc), but I cannot
> > change any options now.
> > 
> > Has anyone else run into this?  Is it perhaps the emulation libraries
> > being a problem?
> 
> Yes - I ran into this with mozilla-firefox-bin (which also seems to have broken
> Flash 9) and mplayer-bin a couple of days ago.  This morning I ran an emerge -C
> to uninstall all of the packages, re-sync'd my Portage tree, and re-emerged
> everything.  Because I'm not in the same physical location as that box, though,
> I can't test it yet.  I'll try it tonight after I get home from work, though,
> and post my results.

-- 
-M

There are 10 kinds of people in this world:
	Those who can count in binary and those who cannot.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 14:04   ` Michael George
@ 2007-03-10 14:36     ` Michael George
  2007-03-10 14:47       ` Joe Menola
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Michael George @ 2007-03-10 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

I noticed that my realplayer also has the same problems, so I don't
think it's a vmware-specific issue...

Hmm...

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 09:04:21AM -0500, Michael George wrote:
> I have tried re-running vmware-config, emerge -C of vmware player with a
> complete reinstall, I even tried version 1.0.3 (which wouldn't start up
> right), but none of that worked.  The fonts for the player are still
> missing.  BTW, I resync my portage tree daily, so it's not out of date.
> 
> Does vmware-player install as binaries?  I guess I didn't watch the
> build to see if it doesn...  if so, then maybe my upgrade of the
> emul-linux-x86-{baselibs,xlibs,qtlibs,soundlibs,gtklibs,sdl,medialibs} might
> have caused the problem.
> 
> ldd on vmplayer shows it as statically linked, so it's not a shared
> library that's the problem...
> 
> qdepends shows shared-mime-info as a dependency, so I tried updating
> that...  But that didn't help, either.
> 
> I wonder if there's a dependency that is overlooked in the ebuild...  Is there
> a way to find that out?
> 
> Anyone have any other suggestions?
> 
> On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 09:50:05AM -0500, The Doctor wrote:
> > Michael George wrote:
> > > I can run vmware-player just fine and my install of XP will run in it,
> > > but all the text is just little boxes.  Luckily, I remember the
> > > important ones (exit, how to focus and release focus, etc), but I cannot
> > > change any options now.
> > > 
> > > Has anyone else run into this?  Is it perhaps the emulation libraries
> > > being a problem?
> > 
> > Yes - I ran into this with mozilla-firefox-bin (which also seems to have broken
> > Flash 9) and mplayer-bin a couple of days ago.  This morning I ran an emerge -C
> > to uninstall all of the packages, re-sync'd my Portage tree, and re-emerged
> > everything.  Because I'm not in the same physical location as that box, though,
> > I can't test it yet.  I'll try it tonight after I get home from work, though,
> > and post my results.

-- 
-M

There are 10 kinds of people in this world:
	Those who can count in binary and those who cannot.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 14:36     ` Michael George
@ 2007-03-10 14:47       ` Joe Menola
  2007-03-10 15:00         ` Michael George
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Joe Menola @ 2007-03-10 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Saturday 10 March 2007 8:36 am, Michael George wrote:
> I noticed that my realplayer also has the same problems, so I don't
> think it's a vmware-specific issue...
>
> Hmm...

Check your GTK font settings.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 14:47       ` Joe Menola
@ 2007-03-10 15:00         ` Michael George
  2007-03-10 15:24           ` Joe Menola
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Michael George @ 2007-03-10 15:00 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 08:47:10AM -0600, Joe Menola wrote:
> On Saturday 10 March 2007 8:36 am, Michael George wrote:
> > I noticed that my realplayer also has the same problems, so I don't
> > think it's a vmware-specific issue...
> >
> > Hmm...
> 
> Check your GTK font settings.

Umm... how?  I've never messed with them, they've always "just
worked"...

-- 
-M

There are 10 kinds of people in this world:
	Those who can count in binary and those who cannot.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 15:00         ` Michael George
@ 2007-03-10 15:24           ` Joe Menola
  2007-03-10 15:51             ` Nuitari
                               ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Joe Menola @ 2007-03-10 15:24 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Saturday 10 March 2007 9:00 am, Michael George wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 08:47:10AM -0600, Joe Menola wrote:
> > On Saturday 10 March 2007 8:36 am, Michael George wrote:
> > > I noticed that my realplayer also has the same problems, so I don't
> > > think it's a vmware-specific issue...
> > >
> > > Hmm...
> >
> > Check your GTK font settings.
>
> Umm... how?  I've never messed with them, they've always "just
> worked"...

I adjust them via kde control center (there was a dedicated package I 
installed to provide access to GTK settings which I don't recall at this 
time, sorry)
Goggle may be of some help
--
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 15:24           ` Joe Menola
@ 2007-03-10 15:51             ` Nuitari
  2007-03-10 18:38             ` Michael George
  2007-03-10 18:39             ` Michael George
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Nuitari @ 2007-03-10 15:51 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

> > > > I noticed that my realplayer also has the same problems, so I don't
> > > > think it's a vmware-specific issue...
> > > >
> > > > Hmm...
> > >
> > > Check your GTK font settings.
> >
> > Umm... how? =A0I've never messed with them, they've always "just
> > worked"...
> 
> I adjust them via kde control center (there was a dedicated package I=20
> installed to provide access to GTK settings which I don't recall at this=20
> time, sorry)
> Goggle may be of some help

When my mozilla-firefox-bin fonts were messed up it turned out to be the 
RenderAccel setting in my xorg.conf, though this only applies if you use 
the binary nvidia drivers.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 15:24           ` Joe Menola
  2007-03-10 15:51             ` Nuitari
@ 2007-03-10 18:38             ` Michael George
  2007-03-10 18:39             ` Michael George
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Michael George @ 2007-03-10 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 09:24:35AM -0600, Joe Menola wrote:
> On Saturday 10 March 2007 9:00 am, Michael George wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 08:47:10AM -0600, Joe Menola wrote:
> > > On Saturday 10 March 2007 8:36 am, Michael George wrote:
> > > > I noticed that my realplayer also has the same problems, so I don't
> > > > think it's a vmware-specific issue...
> > > >
> > > > Hmm...
> > >
> > > Check your GTK font settings.
> >
> > Umm... how? ?I've never messed with them, they've always "just
> > worked"...
> 
> I adjust them via kde control center (there was a dedicated package I 
> installed to provide access to GTK settings which I don't recall at this 
> time, sorry)
> Goggle may be of some help

If you recall how to get kcontrol to set them, I would appreciate it.  I
use neither Gnome nor KDE, so I'm not sure where to look to change the
settings.

It looks like gconftool-2 might do what I need, but it's CLI and I'm not
sure what options or paths I should be sending to it.  I'm guessing this
means that any gtk apps I have are now broken... :(

-- 
-M

There are 10 kinds of people in this world:
	Those who can count in binary and those who cannot.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 15:24           ` Joe Menola
  2007-03-10 15:51             ` Nuitari
  2007-03-10 18:38             ` Michael George
@ 2007-03-10 18:39             ` Michael George
  2007-03-10 18:46               ` Joe Menola
  2007-03-10 19:05               ` Richard Freeman
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Michael George @ 2007-03-10 18:39 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 09:24:35AM -0600, Joe Menola wrote:
> On Saturday 10 March 2007 9:00 am, Michael George wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 08:47:10AM -0600, Joe Menola wrote:
> > > On Saturday 10 March 2007 8:36 am, Michael George wrote:
> > > > I noticed that my realplayer also has the same problems, so I don't
> > > > think it's a vmware-specific issue...
> > > >
> > > > Hmm...
> > >
> > > Check your GTK font settings.
> >
> > Umm... how? ?I've never messed with them, they've always "just
> > worked"...
> 
> I adjust them via kde control center (there was a dedicated package I 
> installed to provide access to GTK settings which I don't recall at this 
> time, sorry)
> Goggle may be of some help

BTW, I am googling and not finding anything immediately obvious.  I'll
keep looking...

Perhaps asking on the gentoo-users list might help, too.

Thanks for all the advice so far!

-- 
-M

There are 10 kinds of people in this world:
	Those who can count in binary and those who cannot.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 18:39             ` Michael George
@ 2007-03-10 18:46               ` Joe Menola
  2007-03-10 19:05               ` Richard Freeman
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Joe Menola @ 2007-03-10 18:46 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Saturday 10 March 2007 12:39 pm, Michael George wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 09:24:35AM -0600, Joe Menola wrote:
> > On Saturday 10 March 2007 9:00 am, Michael George wrote:
> > > On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 08:47:10AM -0600, Joe Menola wrote:
> > > > On Saturday 10 March 2007 8:36 am, Michael George wrote:
> > > > > I noticed that my realplayer also has the same problems, so I don't
> > > > > think it's a vmware-specific issue...
> > > > >
> > > > > Hmm...
> > > >
> > > > Check your GTK font settings.
> > >
> > > Umm... how? ?I've never messed with them, they've always "just
> > > worked"...
> >
> > I adjust them via kde control center (there was a dedicated package I
> > installed to provide access to GTK settings which I don't recall at this
> > time, sorry)
> > Goggle may be of some help
>
> BTW, I am googling and not finding anything immediately obvious.  I'll
> keep looking...
>
> Perhaps asking on the gentoo-users list might help, too.
>
> Thanks for all the advice so far!
>
Perhaps this will help... 
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Same_look_for_QT,_GTK_2_and_GTK_1_apps

-jm
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-08 23:57 [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable Michael George
  2007-03-09  1:36 ` Chris Traylor
  2007-03-09 14:50 ` The Doctor
@ 2007-03-10 18:56 ` Simon Stelling
  2007-03-12 13:18 ` The Doctor
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Simon Stelling @ 2007-03-10 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Michael George wrote:
> Has anyone else run into this?  Is it perhaps the emulation libraries
> being a problem?

Most certainly. Though for most people experiencing font problems after
upgrading the emul-packages, this only lead to "blurry fonts". The
problem is that we're distributing a 32bit copy of freetype in
emul-linux-x86-xlibs. As it's binary, we have to use USE=bindist to
avoid legal problems. Unfortunately that means that some dll-loading
code is replaced with some other code, which is why the fonts suddenly
look different.

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167632

As for the solution: You can a) build your own freetype [1] or b)
convince me that we won't run into legal problems when distributing a
USE=-bindist freetype :)

[1] See http://amd64.gentoo.org/emul for some hints


-- 
Kind Regards,

Simon Stelling
Gentoo/AMD64
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 18:39             ` Michael George
  2007-03-10 18:46               ` Joe Menola
@ 2007-03-10 19:05               ` Richard Freeman
  2007-03-10 19:29                 ` Michael George
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: Richard Freeman @ 2007-03-10 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Michael George wrote:
> 
> BTW, I am googling and not finding anything immediately obvious.  I'll
> keep looking...
> 

I had a similar problem recently with vmware-server-console - everything
went to boxes.  It went away when I emerged app-emulation/
emul-linux-x86-gtklibs-10.0-r1.  I think the problem was that I emerged
all the other v10 emul-linux libs but this one had failed with a symlink
problem and I had been putting it off.  Once I got the gtklibs upgraded
it worked fine.
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-10 19:05               ` Richard Freeman
@ 2007-03-10 19:29                 ` Michael George
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Michael George @ 2007-03-10 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

On Sat, Mar 10, 2007 at 02:05:33PM -0500, Richard Freeman wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Michael George wrote:
> > 
> > BTW, I am googling and not finding anything immediately obvious.  I'll
> > keep looking...
> 
> I had a similar problem recently with vmware-server-console - everything
> went to boxes.  It went away when I emerged app-emulation/
> emul-linux-x86-gtklibs-10.0-r1.  I think the problem was that I emerged
> all the other v10 emul-linux libs but this one had failed with a symlink
> problem and I had been putting it off.  Once I got the gtklibs upgraded
> it worked fine.

That was it!  I had the qt3 USE flag set in make.conf.  Turning that off
(leaving qt4) and rebuilding the package made the difference.

Thanks a bunch!

-- 
-M

There are 10 kinds of people in this world:
	Those who can count in binary and those who cannot.
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-08 23:57 [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable Michael George
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2007-03-10 18:56 ` Simon Stelling
@ 2007-03-12 13:18 ` The Doctor
  2007-03-12 16:31   ` Cermelo Woodgett
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread
From: The Doctor @ 2007-03-12 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 556 bytes --]

Michael George wrote:

...
> but all the text is just little boxes.  Luckily, I remember the
> important ones (exit, how to focus and release focus, etc), but I cannot
> change any options now.
...

Update to this problem:

I removed and reinstalled everything with emerge and it fixed the problem.  No
text glitches with Firefox or GMplayer afterward.

-- 

The Doctor [412/724/301/703]

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: http://drwho.virtadpt.net/

BakerDOS v4.01: Floppy hat support added.


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable
  2007-03-12 13:18 ` The Doctor
@ 2007-03-12 16:31   ` Cermelo Woodgett
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Cermelo Woodgett @ 2007-03-12 16:31 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-amd64

Is that you Josh?

On 3/12/07, The Doctor <drwho@virtadpt.net> wrote:
> Michael George wrote:
>
> ...
> > but all the text is just little boxes.  Luckily, I remember the
> > important ones (exit, how to focus and release focus, etc), but I cannot
> > change any options now.
> ...
>
> Update to this problem:
>
> I removed and reinstalled everything with emerge and it fixed the problem.  No
> text glitches with Firefox or GMplayer afterward.
>
> --
>
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703]
>
> PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
> WWW: http://drwho.virtadpt.net/
>
> BakerDOS v4.01: Floppy hat support added.
>
>
>
-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2007-03-12 16:34 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-03-08 23:57 [gentoo-amd64] vmware-player fonts unreadable Michael George
2007-03-09  1:36 ` Chris Traylor
2007-03-09 14:50 ` The Doctor
2007-03-10 14:04   ` Michael George
2007-03-10 14:36     ` Michael George
2007-03-10 14:47       ` Joe Menola
2007-03-10 15:00         ` Michael George
2007-03-10 15:24           ` Joe Menola
2007-03-10 15:51             ` Nuitari
2007-03-10 18:38             ` Michael George
2007-03-10 18:39             ` Michael George
2007-03-10 18:46               ` Joe Menola
2007-03-10 19:05               ` Richard Freeman
2007-03-10 19:29                 ` Michael George
2007-03-10 18:56 ` Simon Stelling
2007-03-12 13:18 ` The Doctor
2007-03-12 16:31   ` Cermelo Woodgett

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