From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org) by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GqyXq-0001mv-EH for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:06:43 +0000 Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id kB3L4kcj019933; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 21:04:46 GMT Received: from ender.volumehost.net (adsl-69-154-123-202.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net [69.154.123.202]) by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id kB3L4i9N007561 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 21:04:45 GMT Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ender.volumehost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD43D33F for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 21:04:43 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at volumehost.net Received: from ender.volumehost.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ender.volumehost.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id yim1HzqSYxah for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 21:04:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from adsl-69-154-123-205.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net (adsl-69-154-123-205.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net [69.154.123.205]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ender.volumehost.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3714CD348 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 21:04:42 +0000 (UTC) From: "Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: URGENT: No more fonts after xorg changes Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:04:47 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <20061202161037.315020@gmx.net> <200612030732.23276.bss03@volumehost.net> <20061203152421.53ad8469@krikkit.digimed.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20061203152421.53ad8469@krikkit.digimed.co.uk> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart13059453.HLALxGyvjr"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200612031504.52901.bss03@volumehost.net> X-Archives-Salt: 79cb31c7-f7f1-4171-8db2-05ea8fbad7d2 X-Archives-Hash: f1be5b347a17d231c5968054bfd9e447 --nextPart13059453.HLALxGyvjr Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Sunday 03 December 2006 09:24, Neil Bothwick wrote= =20 about 'Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: URGENT: No more fonts after xorg changes': > On Sun, 3 Dec 2006 07:32:23 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > > > That leaves Nvidia two choices, distribute closed source drivers for > > > Linux, or remove that code from the Linux drivers > > > > ...or both (release a "free" version and a "full" version), or release > > They'd probably argue that would be extra work. I agree; it's still a choice. Just exposing the lack of truth is=20 the "false dichotomy" that was originally proposed. Maintaining two=20 separate drivers would probably be hell; even if both derived from a=20 common source-tree it would require a code-audit before every release of=20 the "free" version. > > specs so we can write our own drivers (we don't need to know anything > > patentable or even trade-secret-able, just how to talk to the > > hardware) or a half-dozen other options. > > Haven't they done that already? No. The nv driver is reverse engineered, IIRC. > It's just that this doesn't work with=20 > 3D, which is tied into the proprietary code. Without knowing the > details, which would require an NDA and then not being able to discuss > this, there's no way of knowing how closely the 3D stuff is tied into > the proprietary code. What we it is something similar to e.g. the x86 instruction set. That=20 doesn't tell you anything about the specifics inside the chip, but allows=20 to write software that takes advantage of all features. To write a 3D accelerated driver, we need to know what primitive operations= =20 the cards support and how to invoke those primitive operations. How to=20 translate application-level function calls (opengl, xlib, whatever) into=20 those primitives is something the F(L)/OSS community would have to figure=20 out. I'm sure it would take a year or more to get to the performance and=20 stability of the closed driver, but at least it would be feasible to write= =20 and maintain a 3d-accelerated driver in the "free world". It's possible that we could reverse engineer this information in the=20 future, but that could also mean some broken cards, and it would be nearly= =20 impossible to maintain. > > NB: I use the nvidia driver; I don't like it, but I do use it since I > > do occationally play games that require accelerated 3d. > > So use a different make of card that provides equivalent performance > with a free driver. When next I change video cards, I will be doing just that. =2D-=20 "If there's one thing we've established over the years, it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest clue what's best for them in terms of package stability." =2D- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh --nextPart13059453.HLALxGyvjr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBFczv0q72nDbhDXToRAv3HAJ9uzPLsutWqVDHDoJHLm6UU3cpteACdFPQl uP/hvCo6OFi20bYBBJlWd5s= =3wON -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart13059453.HLALxGyvjr-- -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list