[gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Alvin Thompson]

anyone know what the best make options are for sempron processors?
should i use athlon or amd64 or something else?

thanks,
alvin


-- 
Alvin Thompson

Navy: 42
Army: 13

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[William Tetrault]

On Friday 23 September 2005 05:12 pm, Alvin Thompson wrote:
> anyone know what the best make options are for sempron processors?
> should i use athlon or amd64 or something else?

Some semprons are 64-bit enabled - these can use amd64 profiles if you want 
the 64-bit capabilities.  The others should stick to athlon-xp profiles and 
their related make flags.

HTH.
Bill Tetrault
Madison, WI
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[gentoo-amd64] Re: sempron make options

[Duncan]

Alvin Thompson posted <1127513537.21021.41.camel@localhost.localdomain>,
excerpted below,  on Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:12:17 -0400:

> anyone know what the best make options are for sempron processors?
> should i use athlon or amd64 or something else?

To date (thru 4.0.1), gcc treats all the amd64 family the same -- they are
all aliased to each other, so to with them, it doesn't matter.

I've seen some debate on the the newer processors, however, which have
sse3, sempron included, AFAIK, and can't say I know enough about that to
say for sure what's best there.  For the vast majority of packages, any of
the amd64 aliases will be optimal as they'd not likely use sse3 anyway. 
The exception would be any heavy multimedia or video, particularly
encoding and decoding, but also possibly xorg/mesa.  On that stuff, sse3
could make a difference and I don't know what would be best. (Note that in
practice, support for sse3, as the newest addition in any case, may not be
fully optimized yet, particularly on 64-bit. Look for better support there
by gcc 4.1 or 4.2, after the potential of gcc 4 has had some time to
mature as well.)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman in
http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html


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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Saturday 24 September 2005 00:12, Alvin Thompson wrote:
> anyone know what the best make options are for sempron processors?
> should i use athlon or amd64 or something else?
>
> thanks,
> alvin
>
>
> --
> Alvin Thompson
>
> Navy: 42
> Army: 13

hi,

the sempron is a 32bit (!!) CPU!

Some semprons have deactivated 64 bit (they are defective in the 64bit part or 
superflous ones, that were 'downgraded') but you can not be sure, that your 
sempron is one of them with 64bit.

So use the athlon-xp flags with them.
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[William Tetrault]

On Saturday 24 September 2005 05:20 pm, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> hi,
>
> the sempron is a 32bit (!!) CPU!
>
> Some semprons have deactivated 64 bit (they are defective in the 64bit part
> or superflous ones, that were 'downgraded') but you can not be sure, that
> your sempron is one of them with 64bit.
>
> So use the athlon-xp flags with them.

Hello yourself!

Revision D Sempron cpus in several speed grades, and apparently all revision E 
Semprons have had their 64-bit capabilities switched on.  Check 
theinquirer.net and amdzone.com for the speed grade details.  I don't and 
won't have first-hand experience with this, but this info can be checked out 
easily.  Keep that open mind handy, folks!

Bill Tetrault
Madison, WI
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 25 September 2005 02:05, William Tetrault wrote:
> On Saturday 24 September 2005 05:20 pm, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > the sempron is a 32bit (!!) CPU!
> >
> > Some semprons have deactivated 64 bit (they are defective in the 64bit
> > part or superflous ones, that were 'downgraded') but you can not be sure,
> > that your sempron is one of them with 64bit.
> >
> > So use the athlon-xp flags with them.
>
> Hello yourself!
>
> Revision D Sempron cpus in several speed grades, and apparently all
> revision E Semprons have had their 64-bit capabilities switched on.  Check
> theinquirer.net and amdzone.com for the speed grade details.  I don't and
> won't have first-hand experience with this, but this info can be checked
> out easily.  Keep that open mind handy, folks!
>
> Bill Tetrault
> Madison, WI

I checked amd.com and in their docs are no signs, that the sempron has any 64 
capabilities.

But some of them are pretty old. 
So you may be right or not, maybe I am right or wrong  - someone should ask 
the AMD support directly. ;)
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Drake Donahue]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Volker Armin Hemmann" <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>
To: <gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org>
Cc: "William Tetrault" <xcourse97@charter.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options


> On Sunday 25 September 2005 02:05, William Tetrault wrote:
>> On Saturday 24 September 2005 05:20 pm, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> > hi,
>> >
>> > the sempron is a 32bit (!!) CPU!
>> >
>> > Some semprons have deactivated 64 bit (they are defective in the 64bit
>> > part or superflous ones, that were 'downgraded') but you can not be 
>> > sure,
>> > that your sempron is one of them with 64bit.
>> >
>> > So use the athlon-xp flags with them.
>>
>> Hello yourself!
>>
>> Revision D Sempron cpus in several speed grades, and apparently all
>> revision E Semprons have had their 64-bit capabilities switched on. 
>> Check
>> theinquirer.net and amdzone.com for the speed grade details.  I don't and
>> won't have first-hand experience with this, but this info can be checked
>> out easily.  Keep that open mind handy, folks!
>>
>> Bill Tetrault
>> Madison, WI
>
> I checked amd.com and in their docs are no signs, that the sempron has any 
> 64
> capabilities.
>
> But some of them are pretty old.
> So you may be right or not, maybe I am right or wrong  - someone should 
> ask
> the AMD support directly. ;)
> -- 
> gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
www.newegg.com and host of others are selling "Sempron 64" processors from 
2500+ to 3400+. $59 to $135. Code name Palermo. chip easily recognizable by 
754 pins vice 462. single channel memory controller. 256k  cache. 

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sunday 25 September 2005 05:28, Drake Donahue wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Volker Armin Hemmann" <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de>
> To: <gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org>
> Cc: "William Tetrault" <xcourse97@charter.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options
>
> > On Sunday 25 September 2005 02:05, William Tetrault wrote:
> >> On Saturday 24 September 2005 05:20 pm, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> >> > hi,
> >> >
> >> > the sempron is a 32bit (!!) CPU!
> >> >
> >> > Some semprons have deactivated 64 bit (they are defective in the 64bit
> >> > part or superflous ones, that were 'downgraded') but you can not be
> >> > sure,
> >> > that your sempron is one of them with 64bit.
> >> >
> >> > So use the athlon-xp flags with them.
> >>
> >> Hello yourself!
> >>
> >> Revision D Sempron cpus in several speed grades, and apparently all
> >> revision E Semprons have had their 64-bit capabilities switched on.
> >> Check
> >> theinquirer.net and amdzone.com for the speed grade details.  I don't
> >> and won't have first-hand experience with this, but this info can be
> >> checked out easily.  Keep that open mind handy, folks!
> >>
> >> Bill Tetrault
> >> Madison, WI
> >
> > I checked amd.com and in their docs are no signs, that the sempron has
> > any 64
> > capabilities.
> >
> > But some of them are pretty old.
> > So you may be right or not, maybe I am right or wrong  - someone should
> > ask
> > the AMD support directly. ;)
> > --
> > gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
>
> www.newegg.com and host of others are selling "Sempron 64" processors from
> 2500+ to 3400+. $59 to $135. Code name Palermo. chip easily recognizable by
> 754 pins vice 462. single channel memory controller. 256k  cache.

emmm.... the socket does not say anything about the bits.
Ok, there are 64bit semprons, and they have 754 pins - but there are also 
semprons with only 32 bit and 754 pins. (and of course the socket a semprons, 
which are just repacked athlon-xps ;) )
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Alvin Thompson]

On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 20:23 -0500, William Tetrault wrote:
> Some semprons are 64-bit enabled - these can use amd64 profiles if you want 
> the 64-bit capabilities.  The others should stick to athlon-xp profiles and 
> their related make flags.

interesting, thanks! how do i know if mine is 64-bit enabled? it's an
eMachines M5414 (they apparently produced around 12 of them :). this is
what /proc/cpu says:

$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor       : 0
vendor_id       : AuthenticAMD
cpu family      : 15
model           : 8
model name      : Mobile AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 2800+
stepping        : 2
cpu MHz         : 798.356
cache size      : 256 KB
fdiv_bug        : no
hlt_bug         : no
f00f_bug        : no
coma_bug        : no
fpu             : yes
fpu_exception   : yes
cpuid level     : 1
wp              : yes
flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge
mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext 3dnowext
3dnow
bogomips        : 1585.15

it's actually 1.6 GHz throttled down. so if it's 64-bit enabled can i
use the 64-bit version of linux? what make options should i use?

thanks,
alvin

-- 
Alvin Thompson

Navy: 42
Army: 13

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: sempron make options

[Alvin Thompson]

On Sat, 2005-09-24 at 05:13 -0700, Duncan wrote:
> To date (thru 4.0.1), gcc treats all the amd64 family the same -- they are
> all aliased to each other, so to with them, it doesn't matter.

so i should use the x86 version of gentoo with amd64 make flags? does
that mean i need to somehow use gcc 4.0.1 when bootstrapping?

> I've seen some debate on the the newer processors, however, which have
> sse3, sempron included, AFAIK, and can't say I know enough about that to
> say for sure what's best there.  For the vast majority of packages, any of
> the amd64 aliases will be optimal as they'd not likely use sse3 anyway. 
> The exception would be any heavy multimedia or video, particularly
> encoding and decoding, but also possibly xorg/mesa.  On that stuff, sse3
> could make a difference and I don't know what would be best. (Note that in
> practice, support for sse3, as the newest addition in any case, may not be
> fully optimized yet, particularly on 64-bit. Look for better support there
> by gcc 4.1 or 4.2, after the potential of gcc 4 has had some time to
> mature as well.)

err, that's just confusing me so i'll just ignore it. :)

thanks,
alvin

-- 
Alvin Thompson

Navy: 42
Army: 13

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Alvin Thompson]

On Sun, 2005-09-25 at 00:20 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> the sempron is a 32bit (!!) CPU!
> 
> Some semprons have deactivated 64 bit (they are defective in the 64bit part or 
> superflous ones, that were 'downgraded') but you can not be sure, that your 
> sempron is one of them with 64bit.

so you're saying that semprons are amd64 chips that didn't pass
inspection? i know many chips that don't pass such inspections work
perfectly fine. does that mean i can just try installing as an amd64
(with the 64-bit version of linux) and it might work?

thanks,
alvin


-- 
Alvin Thompson

Navy: 42
Army: 13

-- 
gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: sempron make options

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Monday 26 September 2005 15:24, Alvin Thompson wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-09-24 at 05:13 -0700, Duncan wrote:
> > To date (thru 4.0.1), gcc treats all the amd64 family the same -- they
> > are all aliased to each other, so to with them, it doesn't matter.
>
> so i should use the x86 version of gentoo with amd64 make flags? does
> that mean i need to somehow use gcc 4.0.1 when bootstrapping?
>

the only way to make sure: open your case, remove the cooler, write down the 
OPN and go to amd's quick reference site.

btw, when you read anandtech you'll see, that gcc4  makes slower code for 
amd64 than gcc 3.4
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Daniel Gryniewicz]

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 09:21 -0400, Alvin Thompson wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 20:23 -0500, William Tetrault wrote:
> > Some semprons are 64-bit enabled - these can use amd64 profiles if you want 
> > the 64-bit capabilities.  The others should stick to athlon-xp profiles and 
> > their related make flags.
> 
> interesting, thanks! how do i know if mine is 64-bit enabled? it's an
> eMachines M5414 (they apparently produced around 12 of them :). this is
> what /proc/cpu says:
> 
> $ cat /proc/cpuinfo
> processor       : 0
> vendor_id       : AuthenticAMD
> cpu family      : 15
> model           : 8
> model name      : Mobile AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 2800+
> stepping        : 2
> cpu MHz         : 798.356
> cache size      : 256 KB
> fdiv_bug        : no
> hlt_bug         : no
> f00f_bug        : no
> coma_bug        : no
> fpu             : yes
> fpu_exception   : yes
> cpuid level     : 1
> wp              : yes
> flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge
> mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext 3dnowext
> 3dnow
> bogomips        : 1585.15
> 
> it's actually 1.6 GHz throttled down. so if it's 64-bit enabled can i
> use the 64-bit version of linux? what make options should i use?
> 
> thanks,
> alvin
> 

It looks like it's not.  My cpuinfo has this:

address sizes   : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual

-- 
Daniel Gryniewicz
Gentoo AMD64 Team / Gentoo Gnome Herd / AMD64 Operational AT Lead

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Alvin Thompson]

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 10:21 -0400, Daniel Gryniewicz wrote:
> It looks like it's not.  My cpuinfo has this:
> 
> address sizes   : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual

oh, ok. so what optimizations would be best for the 32-bit version?
athlon-xp? i686?

thanks,
alvin

-- 
Alvin Thompson

Navy: 42
Army: 13

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Daniel Gryniewicz]

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 14:13 -0400, Alvin Thompson wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 10:21 -0400, Daniel Gryniewicz wrote:
> > It looks like it's not.  My cpuinfo has this:
> > 
> > address sizes   : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
> 
> oh, ok. so what optimizations would be best for the 32-bit version?
> athlon-xp? i686?
> 

athlon64 (or k8), if you have >=gcc-3.4, athlon-xp otherwise.  Athlon64
(or k8) just enables a set of optimizations, it doesn't force a bitness.

Daniel

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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Alvin Thompson]

thanks, everyone, for the helpful advice. i think i now have enough 
information to get my system up and running.

you guys are the best!

thanks,
alvin


-- 
Alvin Thompson

Navy: 42
Army: 13
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Re: [gentoo-amd64] sempron make options

[Ian Hastie]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:21:54 -0400
Daniel Gryniewicz <dang@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 09:21 -0400, Alvin Thompson wrote:
> > On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 20:23 -0500, William Tetrault wrote:
> > > Some semprons are 64-bit enabled - these can use amd64 profiles
> > > if you want the 64-bit capabilities.  The others should stick to
> > > athlon-xp profiles and their related make flags.
> > 
> > interesting, thanks! how do i know if mine is 64-bit enabled? it's
> > an eMachines M5414 (they apparently produced around 12 of them :).
> > this is what /proc/cpu says:
> > 
> > $ cat /proc/cpuinfo
> > processor       : 0
> > vendor_id       : AuthenticAMD
> > cpu family      : 15
> > model           : 8
> > model name      : Mobile AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 2800+
> > stepping        : 2
> > cpu MHz         : 798.356
> > cache size      : 256 KB
> > fdiv_bug        : no
> > hlt_bug         : no
> > f00f_bug        : no
> > coma_bug        : no
> > fpu             : yes
> > fpu_exception   : yes
> > cpuid level     : 1
> > wp              : yes
> > flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr
> > pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 syscall nx mmxext
> > 3dnowext 3dnow
> > bogomips        : 1585.15
> > 
> > it's actually 1.6 GHz throttled down. so if it's 64-bit enabled can
> > i use the 64-bit version of linux? what make options should i use?
> > 
> > thanks,
> > alvin
> > 
> 
> It looks like it's not.  My cpuinfo has this:
> 
> address sizes   : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
> 

As far as I know that only shows in 64 bit mode.  He must be running it
in 32 bit mode or the question wouldn't arise.  Perhaps just trying to
boot of a 64 bit, AMD64, Gentoo install disc would show if it is
compatible.

-- 
Ian.

EOM
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