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From: Joonas Niilola <juippis@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] [RFC] More improvement-targeted approach to disciplinary actions (aka removing bans)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 17:21:50 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <f5ce6280-0e05-ffda-9232-6b9312961dc9@gentoo.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5ced7d1a2a5133aca2521b7126b33f8eaa5bd0b2.camel@gentoo.org>


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On 7/24/20 4:59 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
> Hi,
>
> TL;DR: the current punishment-based disciplinary (ComRel/QA) model
> doesn't work very well.  Most of the time it is tedious and results
> in a ban that doesn't solve anything, and effectively ends up being
> harmful to users (as a third party).  I would like to discuss replacing
> it with a model that focuses on improvement and making amends.

Sometimes I wish I was banned, so I could keep a two week vacation from
any Gentoo related work with good conscience. It's getting pretty
stressful with ever-increasing checks, and you need to reserve ~30
minutes to get a clean CI run after anything you've committed.

Of course these checks assure a much better user experience, but it's
mentally straining on this end.

And no, QA is not a monster. I'm not aware of any unjustified bans.


> Now, if the developer deliberately refuses to make amends, then I think
> we shouldn't play cat-and-mouse any longer and immediately go for
> retirement.  Of course, with possibility of appeal to the Council
> and the usual rights but without the 'N bans' game before it.

What if this genuinely happened:


> QA: developer X, please follow the standards.
> [silence]
> QA: developer X, ping.
> [silence]
> QA: developer X, please answer or else...
> [silence]
> QA: developer X, we issue official warning.
> [*shrug*]
> <a few warnings later>
> QA: we issue 14 day ban for developer X.
> dev X: bad QA!  I never got any warnings!  They didn't really try to
> reach out!  [to users] I'm sorry, this guy has banned me so I can't bump
> Y, it's all their fault.
>
I'm fine with your solution, retiring the dev if they refuse to
co-operate. However I'd like to see a full pseudo-example here what
happens before the retirement by Comrel/QA. A list of all steps. And by
this time, I'd say to have 1 strike before retirement, with a cooldown
of say 1-2 years. Just to eradicate any human errors from the process,
and I believe everyone deserves a 2nd chance.

(Does this need to be GLEPd)?

-- juippis



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  reply	other threads:[~2020-07-24 14:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-07-24 13:59 [gentoo-project] [RFC] More improvement-targeted approach to disciplinary actions (aka removing bans) Michał Górny
2020-07-24 14:21 ` Joonas Niilola [this message]
2020-07-24 20:22   ` Michał Górny
2020-07-27  7:27     ` Joonas Niilola
2020-07-27  7:34       ` Michał Górny
2020-07-24 16:15 ` Aaron Bauman
2020-07-25 10:01 ` Lars Wendler

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