From: Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-nfp <gentoo-nfp@lists.gentoo.org>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-nfp] Trustee nomination: Aaron Bauman (bman)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 15:15:21 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAGfcS_=wmw-oB2xeh7+_UGZ7Zbph6AyohuEXJhfCU4zBenJ+mw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180717190458.GC11692@monkey>
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 3:04 PM Aaron Bauman <bman@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 02:21:51PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 2:01 PM Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Also, we would need to operate two NFPs when at this election
> > > we only secured enough candidates to staff one ... if they are all
> > > ranked above _reopen_nominations in the poll.
> > >
> >
> > ++
> >
> > This just sounds like twice as many opportunities to get things wrong,
> > and it splits our resources.
> >
>
> You didn't read my previous reply to Roy. It also does not split
> resources. Plain and simple.
I sent my reply before receiving yours, so obviously I didn't read it.
Even so, running two non-profits splits our money into two bank
accounts. It is a division of resources no matter what.
>
> > > To follow on your example, there are several competing 2FA
> > > solutions with differing feature sets. While Nitrokey may be
> > > selected for <reasons> the comparative value assesment still
> > > needs to be performed or the trustees would be neglecting their
> > > duty by rubber stamping council decisions.
> >
> > Why would we think that the trustees would do any better a job at this
> > than the Council? Why would the Council want to waste money? There
> > is a limited pool of resources, and if the Council is making decisions
> > like this I'd imagine most developers would vote to select people they
> > trust to make these decisions.
>
> No one said the council will do any better at this than the council.
Roy suggested that the Trustees would need to assess value, which
implies that the Council won't be doing this.
> Why would this be a waste of money?
I never said it would be a waste of money. I asked Roy why he thought
the Council would want to waste money that the Trustees might have to
stop.
> Your paragraph is full of assumptions and no digestion of what
> I wrote.
I didn't quote anything you wrote, or reply to anything you wrote.
>
> > If we went to an umbrella org then there is a good chance that the
> > Council will end up making these kinds of decisions.
> >
> > Besides, why would we want multiple decision-making bodies, where one
> > body can choose to invest in something, and then another body can
> > ensure that all that investment is wasted by denying complementary
> > investment? That could go either way.
> >
>
> It is not multiple decision making bodies. The council is leading and
> the Foundation is providing. The only split is that of legal and
> financial decision making for (hopefully) obvious reasons.
I wasn't replying to your proposal. I was replying to Roy's criticism
of your proposal. You proposed one decision-making body. Roy replied
and said that we need to stick with two. THAT was what I was
responding to.
> > > Such bylaws would make me nervous ... what happens if the new
> > > legal entity has insuffcient funds to pay these people. I suppose it
> > > just goes bankrupt, like any other legal entity.
> >
> > Honestly, I don't see any point in codifying random decisions in bylaws.
>
> Which random decisions?
Ok, now I was replying to something you wrote:
"e.g. The council votes to adopt the FHS as a standard of which all
Gentoo developers must adhere within the Gentoo distribution. The
trustees will enact this by amending the by-laws."
Why would we stick FHS in the by-laws?
>
> > Bylaws are supposed to be general principles we operate on. They
> > don't codify individual operating decisions. Those decisions should
> > be documented, but elsewhere.
> >
>
> Sure, by-laws can codify anything you want to set into statute. It
> allows for enforcement and legal soundness.
So do any other decisions made by the Trustees. They're all
enforceable. They all represent policy. Bylaws are more about how
the org operates than its individual decisions.
> > That said, I'm all for paying people to do jobs that need to be done
> > reliably when volunteers aren't cutting it (and historically, they
> > haven't been). This is a big argument in favor of an umbrella,
> > because there is an economy in splitting these costs across many orgs.
> > But, if we were independent I'd rather pay a CPA to do the taxes
> > properly/etc. And then we'd make sure that not a dime gets paid to
> > anybody without the CPA knowing about it...
>
> The sad part is, that if years hadn't gone by and it was done
> incrementally over time this wouldn't be such a burden. Again, see my
> reply to Roy regarding umbrellas.
Sure, but there is a reason it happened, and I suspect it will
continue to happen, because in the end 99% of Gentoo contributors
don't care if the paperwork gets done correctly. There is no reason
an individual couldn't do our taxes, but it is important that they get
done...
--
Rich
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-07-17 19:15 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-07-12 20:18 [gentoo-nfp] Trustee nomination: Aaron Bauman (bman) Michał Górny
2018-07-12 20:34 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-16 21:21 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-17 18:01 ` Roy Bamford
2018-07-17 18:18 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-18 19:34 ` Roy Bamford
2018-07-18 19:58 ` Rich Freeman
2018-07-18 20:25 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-18 20:43 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-17 18:21 ` Rich Freeman
2018-07-17 19:04 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-17 19:15 ` Rich Freeman [this message]
2018-07-17 19:29 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-17 20:43 ` Alec Warner
2018-07-17 20:59 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-17 21:16 ` Alec Warner
2018-07-17 21:42 ` Rich Freeman
2018-07-17 22:03 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-17 22:15 ` Alec Warner
2018-07-17 22:50 ` Aaron Bauman
2018-07-17 21:19 ` Rich Freeman
2018-07-17 22:08 ` Aaron Bauman
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