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From: Matt Turner <mattst88@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-project@lists.gentoo.org
Cc: elections@gentoo.org
Subject: Re: Flow's Manifesto and questions for nominees (was: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council Election 202306 ... Nominations Open in Just Over 24 Hours.)
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2023 10:21:49 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAEdQ38HQPDPk1Rf_d-W90WzcJeZb2=Y--eBnNkNFsdzxsaaCZw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <cdf5ddb7-8f65-74cf-5594-3e3eec86c915@gentoo.org>

On Sat, Jul 8, 2023 at 6:11 AM Florian Schmaus <flow@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> On 28/06/2023 11.51, Florian Schmaus wrote:
> > On 17/06/2023 10.37, Arthur Zamarin wrote:
> >> On 15/06/2023 19.05, Roy Bamford wrote:
> >>> Team,
> >>>
> >>> Did you spot the error in my original announce?
> >>>
> >>> Write your nominations email now but don't send it until ...
> >>> Nominations are Saturday, 23-06-17 00:00:00 until
> >>> Friday 23-06-30 23:59:59. That's from the start of Saturday until the
> >>> end of the Friday for two weeks total.
> >>>
> >>> Replies to this message will make nominations easy to find for the
> >>> election officials.
> >>
> >> OK, then let me start sending nominations :)
> >>
> >> […]
> >  >
> >> I also want to nominate people who I feel contribute a lot to Gentoo and
> >> I have a lot of interaction with (ordered by name, not priority):
> >>
> >> […]
> >> flow
> >
> > I apologize for the late reply, and thank you for the nomination. I am
> > honored and accept.
>
> Here is my Manifesto:
>
>      https://dev.gentoo.org/~flow/council-manifesto-2023.txt
>
>
> I'd also like to ask the nominees about their stance regarding EGO_SUM.
>
> Any answer, ranging from, for example, "don't care" to "keep the status
> quo" to "reintroduce EGO_SUM," is appreciated. But I kindly ask that
> your answer does not lack details. For example, if you can think of
> re-introducing EGO_SUM with some constraints, then clearly specify those
> constraints.

To be perfectly frank, I think you're leading these discussions in circles.

I think I explained how I felt to you privately:

<    Flow> You feel like my reply to your mail was not serious?
<mattst88> I don't question whether it was serious; I think it's an
invitation for others to try to convince you of something
<mattst88> it seems that you want others to present arguments in favor
of the status quo to you
<mattst88> but that seems to me to be backwards—you want a change, it
should be you who is presenting an argument
<mattst88> to this point, many people have contributed to the thread,
mostly to explain why EGO_SUM was deprecated
<mattst88> if, this information had convinced you, we would have
produced nothing. no change in policy for a non-trivial amount of
effort
<mattst88> others have acknowledged some situations where the lack of
EGO_SUM has made things difficult and offered support in relaxing
those requirements
<mattst88> (e.g. by allowing EGO_SUM in overlays, and by allowing
EGO_SUM to be used if Manifest size is below some limit)
<mattst88> I believe you have rejected both of those
<mattst88> so to me, it seems that others have spent significant
effort explaining why things are the way they are and have suggested
improvements
<mattst88> and you appear to still want further justification of the
status quo and have not softened your position at all
<mattst88> as a result, I don't feel it would be a productive use of
my time to further elaborate on why I think you've unintentionally
provided data in support of a Manifest size limit
<    Flow> That discussion appears stuck, I can see why you feel that
its unproductive

but I think it's worth it to post that publicly as well because I
don't sense that your approach has changed since that conversation
(which took place on ~May 11).

My advice for you is to take a step back, stop arguing so
intransigently for your position, listen to others' concerns and begin
working to resolve them. E.g. Sam has said that he thinks implementing
a check in pkgcheck (equivalent to the one you implemented in Portage)
is a blocker. You disagree, but that just leaves us with no obvious
path forward.

I'd posit that you could have probably implemented the change in
pkgcheck in significantly less time than you've spent writing emails
disagreeing with the suggestion.

So tl;dr is: I really don't think there's more to discuss at this
point, and I'm aggravated that you keep bringing it up (someone else
counted 4 separate threads on the topic, and now the meta-discussion
here) seemingly without any willingness to compromise. A seat on
Council isn't the thing you need.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-07-09 14:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-06-15 16:05 [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council Election 202306 ... Nominations Open in Just Over 24 Hours Roy Bamford
2023-06-17  8:37 ` Arthur Zamarin
2023-06-17 16:23   ` Toralf Förster
2023-06-18 19:46   ` Ionen Wolkens
2023-06-21 18:46   ` Sam James
2023-06-21 21:06   ` Ulrich Mueller
2023-06-24 18:22   ` John Helmert III
2023-07-08 22:23     ` John Helmert III
2023-06-25  5:08   ` Joonas Niilola
2023-06-25  8:51   ` Andreas K. Huettel
2023-06-25 23:18   ` Matt Turner
2023-06-26 13:46   ` Michał Górny
2023-06-27  9:31   ` David Seifert
2023-06-27 13:35   ` Jakov Smolić
2023-06-28  9:51   ` Florian Schmaus
2023-06-28 14:46     ` Sam James
2023-07-08 10:10     ` Flow's Manifesto and questions for nominees (was: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council Election 202306 ... Nominations Open in Just Over 24 Hours.) Florian Schmaus
2023-07-08 12:33       ` Michał Górny
2023-07-08 21:29         ` Sam James
2023-07-09  3:21         ` Michał Górny
2023-07-08 20:22       ` [gentoo-project] Re: Flow's Manifesto and questions for nominees Ulrich Mueller
2023-07-08 21:29       ` Flow's Manifesto and questions for nominees (was: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council Election 202306 ... Nominations Open in Just Over 24 Hours.) David Seifert
2023-07-08 22:50       ` John Helmert III
2023-07-09 14:21       ` Matt Turner [this message]
2023-07-12 19:06       ` Florian Schmaus
2023-07-12 19:28         ` Alec Warner
2023-07-14  7:14           ` Florian Schmaus
2023-07-14  7:33             ` Sam James
2023-07-14  8:19               ` Sam James
2023-06-30 16:39   ` [gentoo-project] Gentoo Council Election 202306 ... Nominations Open in Just Over 24 Hours Andreas Sturmlechner
2023-07-01 22:42   ` David Seifert
2023-06-17 14:41 ` Florian Schmaus
2023-06-17 14:58   ` Arthur Zamarin
2023-06-17 16:19   ` James Le Cuirot
2023-06-19 13:44   ` Pacho Ramos
2023-06-20 10:16   ` Florian Schmaus
2023-06-21 17:32     ` Arsen Arsenović
2023-06-21  7:05   ` Guilherme Amadio
2023-06-23 19:53   ` Patrick McLean
2023-06-24 21:58   ` Conrad Kostecki
2023-06-29 13:28   ` Mike Gilbert
2023-06-30  6:35 ` Robin H. Johnson
2023-06-30  7:24   ` Maciej Barć
2023-06-30  8:46   ` Andrew Ammerlaan
2023-06-30  8:56   ` Hans de Graaff
2023-06-30 10:21   ` Mike Pagano
2023-06-30 12:30   ` David Abbott
2023-06-30 15:18   ` Jimi Huotari
2023-06-30 16:10   ` Roy Bamford
2023-06-30 20:29   ` Alfredo Tupone
2023-07-01  0:04   ` Rich Freeman
2023-07-03 20:02   ` Marek Szuba
2023-06-30 21:59 ` [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev-announce] " Patrick Lauer
2023-07-08 18:06 ` Arthur Zamarin
2023-07-09  3:36   ` Michał Górny
2023-07-09 14:09   ` Matt Turner
2023-07-09 17:47   ` [gentoo-project] " Ulrich Mueller

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